InBoard vs OutBoard?

javsam

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

excellent article, and does prove what I've stated.<br />javsam
 

Lou C

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

If you are not leaving it in salt you can really have any of the 3 since you are not going to have as much of an issue with corrosion. OB does take up less room, but there can be issues with oil injection on older style 2 strokes, and the newer DI 2 strokes can have similar issues related to lean fuel burn. Either can result in a burned piston or scored cylinder. Both 4 stroke OB and DI 2 stroke are complex. Don't forget even an old style V-6 2 stroke has 6 carbs. Now the simplest is the straight shaft inboard as noted above. The only issue with them I can see is that for one the low speed manuverability is more difficult (if single engine) than an OB or sterndrive. Also engine accessibility can be very difficult since it often sits low between the stringers. So I think closed cooling and a remote oil and fuel filters are a must on these. Sterndrive engines can have anything from good accessibility for most things or terrible, depending on the installation. But then the whole sterndrive unit has to be maintained properly, and for boats left in the water it is a bigger deal than many want to deal with. My old OMC 4.3 is pretty easy to work on for routine tune ups and oil changes, and winterizing is not even too difficult. I can remove the rear seat in about 5 min and have full access. I leave the outdrive service to the shop. <br />If I could find a Shamrock at a good price that is the way I'd go though. Today's OBs just cost too damn much. Nothing gives you cheaper HP than an inboard.
 

trog100

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

what i find odd about that article is the extra 8 mph the outboard seems to produce.. two engines supposedly the same hp pushing two similar type and weight boats.. one manages nearly a 25% speed increase over the other.. 34 mph to 42..???<br /><br />the 34 seems about right to me for a boat like that with 135 hp.. the 42 seems way over the top..<br /><br />i cant help but think that particular two stroke puts out more power than its claimed 135 horses.. if it does the fuel cost per horse power at WOT would even up somewhat..<br /><br />11.9 gallons in the I/O takes u 34 miles.. 14.2 gallons in the O/B takes u 42 miles.. not a lot of difference there is there.. now if they found a smaller outboard that produced the same top speed at WOT as the I/O the figures would look different.. or if they used a 5.7 I/O and ran that at the same 42 mph the outboard managed that might be a fairer comparison.. he he.. <br /><br />trog100
 

dingbat

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

cant help but think that particular two stroke puts out more power than its claimed 135 horses.. if it does the fuel cost per horse power at WOT would even up somewhat..
I think you'll find that it’s the WOT RPM that makes the difference. The I/O has maybe a 4.5K red line where as the outboard is probably closer to 6K
 

trog100

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

dunno horse power is horse power.. the outboard is more "highly tuned" so to speak.. the inboard is more an industrial truck engine which explains its good bottom end grunt compared to the outboard..<br /><br />but.. ask anybody who knows anything about engines.. "How do i make my 34 mph 135 horse power 4400lb 21ft boat do 42 mph" and the answer wont be "stick a similar horse power but higher revving outboard on it"..<br /><br />it will be "u need at least another 50 horse power".. which of course is why i say that the so-called 135 hp otimax just has to be putting out way more than 135 hp at WOT..<br /><br />i say the outboard figures are wrong cos i have a similar size and weight 3 litre 135 hp I/O boat that tops out about 35 mph.. to get it up 42 mph or so i would need to move up to a 4.7 litre V6 to get that 50 or so extra horse power i mention.. he he <br /><br />trog100
 

stevens

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

It's too hard to compare across boats.<br /><br />I have a 21' daycruiser with that exact 120 hp diesel inboard with an Alpha drive. On a good day, with little load and the right prop, we are just able to do 42 mph / 36 knots...<br /><br />The rated max RPM is 4400 and it has a rev limiter at approx. 4450. The gear ratio is 2:1.
 

stevens

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

Just an aside; I don't understand the argument that an inboard steals interior space. I've found quite the opposite, where all the space around and over the inboard is useful for seating, stowage, full width swim platforms, etc., whereas the outboard will waste a lot of that same space.<br /><br />Witness the following two boats, identical except as regards the engine:<br /><br />
3489_original.jpg
<br /><br />
3475_original.jpg
 

rodbolt

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

a lot of the difference is the fact that the inboard has a lot of power robbing projections. two identical, well almost, hulls. one with a 135 outboad and one with a 135 gas inboard. the outboard will walk away from the inboard, its all due to weight,gear ratios, the fact that the two stroke has a power impulse at every TDC and less power robbing projections for cooling,steering and shaft supports. plus the outboard will have trim.<br /> shamrocks are the absolute most common boats to service, however they are about the toughest most seaworthy inboards I ever worked with in the 17-22 ft range. you would not believe some of the seas and stunts the local tow boat US capt has done in his 20 footers. so for recreational use and diving its hard to beat an inboard if properly set up.
 

dingbat

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

i say the outboard figures are wrong cos i have a similar size and weight 3 litre 135 hp I/O boat that tops out about 35 mph.. to get it up 42 mph or so i would need to move up to a 4.7 litre V6 to get that 50 or so extra horse power i mention.. he he
Or spin the prop 25% faster. <br /><br />If they are both 135 HP then they should be able to spin the exact same prop at WOT. <br /><br />Assuming a 19" prop with a 2:1 gear ratio<br />4450/2 x 19 = 40.03 mph<br />5900/2 x 19 = 53.07 mph <br /><br />I'm running a 175HP Merc outboard and eat 190HP Mercruisers for lunch.
 

rodbolt

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

cause of the extra weight and drag of the I/O and inboard stuff. the 3.0 with a clutch is almost twice the weight of most 135 outboards. and doesnt have seastrainer scoops,rudders and struts slowing ya down. next time your cruising at 35 mph take your paddle and try to stick the handle straight down and hold it there.<br /> not to mention the incredible difference in the torque/power curves between 4 striokes and two strokes.
 

trog100

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

overall the boats in the test I/O and outboard weighed the same.. the I/O engine'drive weighed about 650lbs the outboard 450-ish.. but allowing for the extra oil tank.. strenghtened transom and extra linkage required by the outboard both boats weighed about the same for the tests.. so it aint weight.. not in this case..<br /><br />dont forget i questioned the 135 hp of the outboard and said it must be more powerfull than its claimed.. if it is its an unfair fuel comparison.. this was the basic gist of my comment..<br /><br />if one claimed 135 hp engine moves a boat at 34 mph and another claimed 135 hp engine moves the same boat at 42 mph something is wrong.. it aint weigh cos the article mentions this.. so it must be power.. being as they sell marine engines by horse power ratings and very often to save manufacturing costs make one basic engine fill two slots in the hp line up i am quite prepared to believe that the two stroke is well under rated power wise..<br /><br />pity they never actually measured the claimed power output of the engines.. thow in a way they did.. that extra 8 mph (very nearly a 25% speed increase) didnt come from nowhere.. he he <br /><br />having just looked at the huge size of a 70hp and 90hp mercury four stroke outboard.. both identcal in capacity size and weight by the way.. the only difference being the "claimed" power output.. i dread to think how big a 150 hp four stroke outboard would be.. as u say size for size weight for weight a two stikes puts out way more power than a four stroke ever does.. i was amazed that these huge things i was looking were only 70 and 90 horse power.. it also makes me think that if the 135 hp outboard used in the article was a four stroke instead of a two stroke the boat engine combination would come out heavier than its I/O counter part..<br /><br />a little fishing boat moored next to mine has just had a mercury 15 hp bigfoot four stroke fitted to it.. it did have a johnson 35 hp two stoke.. the guy told me he had just had a bigger engine fitted.. i spose in a way he was right.. thow not in the way he thought.. he he <br /><br />trog100
 

rodbolt

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

trog<br /> ya still aint getting it. most 135 120 and 140 motors I dyno are very close to what they say. the major difference on say a 17 shamrock with an inboard and the same weight hull on a 17ft outboard is the fact the HP and torque curves are vastly different, the weight distribution is way different and with an inboard you usually have a keel supported strut or a V strut cragging in the water along with seawater intake scoops on the hull bottom and a rudder back there dragging. it eats an amazing amount of power. with the outboard mounted on the transom the laws of physics says the transom is now a fulcrum point, as the motors is trimmed up it forces the stern down and lifts more of the hull out of the water, someting an inboard cannot do, less hull wetted, less drag, better use of avalible HP. by the very nature of the shaft angle on an inboard it tends to lift the stern and plow the bow. makes for an incredible amount of drag. if ya dont belive it set your rig at a good trim up angle at say 3800 then make no other changes other than trimming full down and watch the speed and rpm fall. thats why hull desighn is so critical on an inboard. most start sloping the bottom aft end of the hull upwards to help counteract the tendancy for prop thrust to raise the stern. that coupled with the fact that most inboards use the clucth as a center to apply the thrust of the prop shaft.<br /> so its not fair to compare an inboard to an outboard based on strictly speed and fuel consumption. better to compare them on the advantages and disadvantages of both. both for applicable use and cost of service/maint.
 

eboylan3

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Aug 7, 2005
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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

If you leave your I/O in the water all the time, it's not a question of "Will it sink?", the question is "When will it sink?". Those bellows start rotting as soon as they come out of the mold. And I don't think it's possible to have a limp-home mode on an I/O, even if you do have a divorced generator setup.<br /><br />John
 

trog100

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

i dont doubt a word u say rodbolt.. i just questioned that one article that someone linked to and the weird speed disparity tween the I/O boat and the same type and overall weight outboard powered boat.. i recon we have gotten our wires crossed .. he he <br /><br />as u say inboard powered boats wont go as fast (top speed in calm water) as outboard powered boats given the same horse power.. but i think we are getting into the difference tween real (coastal) fishing boats and shallow vee bay and lake pleasure boats..<br /><br />praps its what the boat is used for thats the most importance in this.. "whats the best" discussion..<br /><br />last time i took my shallow vee "calm water" pleasure boat near the north sea.. about 5 mph was the fastest i dare go.. and at that it was impossible to stand up in the boat without hanging on to something..<br /><br />kind of amusing really cos the reason i took my boat to sea was to get away from the 8 mph legal river speed limit where it spends most of its time.. but the sea imposed its own speed limit which was slower still.. he he he<br /><br />trog100
 

joblo33

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Jan 19, 2005
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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

Not very fair competition; Four-Stroke I/0 vs 2-stroke outboard. They should've used a four stroke outboard.<br />Eric
 

ewenm

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Mar 30, 2005
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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

Trog the difference in speed is simlpy because the outboard could be wrung out an extra 25% imagine if you could spin your i/o out to 6 grand instead of the typical 4600-5000, its all been said before<br /><br />Ewen
 

ewenm

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Mar 30, 2005
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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

and as for bellows rotting all i can say is ROT my boat is eleven years old all its life in salt water 12 months a year, the original motor died, rusted through the water passage in one head and i chose to replaced the whole power pac 12 months ago but in the 10 years the bellows were changed twice as a service precaution only---IF you service these things and treat them with respect as the manufacturer recomends you generally dont have problems. admittedly there are allways going to be exceptions but when you see and here of some of the stupid questions and crazy servicing done on boats it doesnt really matter what the power pac is some body will find a way to stuff it up and then start an urban myth<br />oh oh oh bellows leak and the boat sinks yeah right, what insurance company could cover that risk if there was any truth in it<br /><br />give us a break
 

rodbolt

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

ewen<br /> ya wanna see the two I am repowering now? both sank with bad bellows. one is a 01 SX and the other an 85 alpha. both sank due to a hole in the bellows. I suspect due to rubbing on barnies.<br /> volvo reccomends maint on them as does merc but they leak and sink many boats each year here<br /> but I get the occasional inboard that does it as well, next months project is a 28ft carolina classic that covered the heads before we got pumps on it. seams it sat until the batteries died and down she went. its a twin 7.4 inboard rig.<br /> here in the salt pond I reccomend bi-annual inspections and 3 year replacement intravels. baricales and bellows dont get along but I have several that splash in the spring and dont get hauled again until about december.<br /> I pulled a 99 volvo today that the manifolds and circ pump have leaked a long time. now we get to change them as well as replace the rusted out oil pan. had to use the oxy/acetylene rig to loosen the motor mount nuts :) :) . had to melt the fwd prop from the hub with the same flame wrench and cut the inner hub . its a DP-SM. both trim cyl's are leaking due to corroded seals and both cylinders have holes corroded almost through them. <br /> took me 7 hours to remove the props, drive and engine.<br /> all due to excessive maint.
 

Inti

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Sep 14, 2005
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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

Hey fishingdan, that was a great article!<br />thanx for sharing it with the rest of us. Im learning more and more thanx to all you guys!<br />I really appreciate all the feedback.<br /><br />But the truth is I still have no idea what to get, I'll keep doing research for now and keep my patience!<br /><br />Inti<br /><br /><br />
Originally posted by fishingdan:<br /> Here is a nice little article someone forwarded to me. Popular Mechanics took three identical boats and compared performance, fuel economy, costs, etc for these boats running an outboard, a gas I/O and a diesel I/O. <br /> Popular Mechanics' article<br /><br />I am sure some have seen this, but I thought it was interesting.
 

rodbolt

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Re: InBoard vs OutBoard?

ya just cant compare them as apples to apples. before purchasing a boat ya need to write down some paremeters on what your looking for. each has advantages and disadvantages. outboard boats tend to be lighter and faster, inboards tend to get better fuel economy than outboards but have alternate maint issures, inboards dont like skinny water but have the advantage of moving the weight fwd in the hull. so it mostly depends on what you want the boat to do. a 17ft I/O or inboard usually is a maint nightmare for access. a 28ft boat with a single outboard is normally a pig both in ride and fuel costs.<br /> the towboat US shamrock here is 2o ft. one has a 351 and one a 5.7. both will run comfortably at 2700 rpm or 4000 RPM. an outboard hull of the same size will struggle at 2700 RPM. makes a difference when the water is a bit bumpy.<br /> pick up a net or a pot with an outboard and ya tilt it up to look at it, do it with an inboard and ya break out the mask and snorkel, sometimes not a good plan if the water is cold and bumpy.<br /> so while reading is good no magazine can tell ya what YOU want the boat to do. first thing I always advise boat shoppers is to write a list of what they want the hull to do. are ya gonna boatel keep it< dry stack it, trailer it, keep it on a lift? are ya gonna do all the maint,part of the maint or none.<br /> if my area had more thick water a 17-20 shamrock with merc full cooled fresh water 5.7 and a warner 72 series clucth with a water cooled dripless packing on the shaft log would last me 15 or 20 years with routine maint and careful planning. toss the risres everythree years, do the seawater pump yearly and keep the shaft aligment check and pay close attention to corrosion contro in the engine box and they will go and go.<br /> my cousin has a 1915-17 built 33' shad boat that now has a marine power 454 and a 72 series 1.5-1 clutch and full freshwater cooling. runs about 7 hours a day 6 days per week from about march till about november. I put the engine in service in 96 and other than routine maint and 1 set of risers it just goes crabbing. well that and two distributor pick up coils.<br /> so it just depends on what you wish the hull to do. boats are like carburators, some are better than others but all are a comprimise.
 
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