I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

[Mr. Ross]

I have pretty much been an inboard person except for a couple of experiences years ago, the Johnson 70 was great but the Sea Drive 150, well nuff said.

Given the rave reviews of these newer models and the fact that my back can't take the bilge work like it used to, I purchased a new boat with twin F150s. It was a leftover, in fact very leftover to the tune of a year and a half. Dealer said they had techs and come to find out they do not so I am stuck hauling the boat to another city or fixing it myself.

I have a few questions for the experts.

What is the normal operating temperature when running at cruising speed? Both of mine creep up an entire quadrant on the temp gauge over readings at low speed operation. No alarms going off but it is three quarters of the way across the Yamaha gauge. I'm concerned about the water pumps as I know a "service person" ran both the engines using the flush fitting.

Has anyone figured out a way to easily put those red rings back on the filter, and keep them there after cleaning the thing? I had struggled with the originals but at least they stayed on once the bowl is in place. Today I replaced both front engine mounted filters with new ones I could get only one to remain on those plastic legs even after the bowl was affixed.

These engines seem to eat filters, man, it is expensive to change all of them. I have one engine that will not run past 5600 RPM, other one runs 6100. I took the VST apart yesterday, that was a treat. The HP fuel pump filter was perhaps 20% covered with a fine white material of some nature. Hopefully that will give me the RPMs that are missing. The boat has not run correctly since I purchased it but Yamaha has been great in providing me with support. Fuel pressure is within specs. There was, however, some debris in the VST tank. Not certain how it got there.

One of the two engines has a bit of an intermittent "whine" to it, especially at low idle. Sounds like a belt issue but I hear it much lower. Could be the drive shaft? Never noticed it before but then normally don't run with the covers off.

Switched to Racor 10 micron with the clear bowl, may go to the 2 micron given the fuel is so crappy these days. I can't understand how stuff makes it's way past a 10 micron but it was there.

Plan on running her this weekend to see if the fix worked. Picture compares the port with starboard water separator mounted in boat. Not certain if this would be enough crud to cause the RMP loss. Leaning more toward the VST filter I changed.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

crappy fuel isnt a yamaha issue.
but we see that same white stuff, its something in the fuel.
post the model number of the engine.
that whine may be the bushing just above the water pump that supports the driveshaft.
running at idle on just the engine flush device will usually not damage the pump but it will usually overheat the engine.
what gauge package was this boat rigged with?
6y5 digital,command link or aftermarket?
try lightly spreading the legs on the filter before installing them.
your engine have to be older than 2007 models cause the 07 and up used a water detect switch and not the red rings.
its possible the Efuels have been mixed with the older MTBE fuel and ya get a white powdery crap that clogs everything and can go on and on and on.
dont ask how I know.
what are the last two digits of the hull VIN number?

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

The manufacture date of the engines is 2006 but Yamaha does not use model years. Even though I purchased in 2008 the dealer titled as 2007 because that was the year of the boat. All rigging was done at the factory, twin 150s with Yamaha gauges.

No mixture of fuel has occurred as far as I know since the tank was empty until I purchased the boat, believe the factory uses a portable tank to test run them. E10 is all that has ever been put in the boat.

You are right-on with the overheat, when the mechanic did that the overheat alarm came on with both engines.

As far as the bushing is concerned, is that something I need to look into, or is it making the noise because it's out of the water?

I did try spreading the legs of those filters but was afraid of breaking them in going too far, I think next time I will use a heat gun.

As I said, Yamaha has been great and very responsive to me in an attempt to correct the issues I have had. Good company, just wish I could have this running right.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

yamaha used year of production until the 06 production run, after that year of manufacture is on the tag on the stbd bracket and the seriel or engine PID is on the port bracket. PID is used for parts and service,year of manufacture is for titling and bank use.

your engines are 2006 models as the 2007 had a water detect switch, no red ring and your tag says so.
you may wish to get the title issue corrected.
yamaha has NO factory rigging facilities.
they sell engines to dealers and hull manufactures.
what happens after that isnt yamaha.
not the first time the rigging dealer or hull manufacture screwd one up.
its possible they added fuel to start and water test after rigging.
but that whitish stuff,powdery when dry, collects on fuel tank walls,fuel lines and about everything else then gets into a filter.
its classic when MTBE fuels got mixed with Efuels.
we got the Efuels in june of 08 and the nightmares continue.
if that low speed whine becomes constant have your balancers checked, they can and will fail.
the 08 run had updated balancers.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

I know that Yamaha has no facilities, unless they did that with Century, not certain there. The engines are titled as 2007, same as the boat. I did check with Yamaha and was told that they stamped date of production, not model year at the time, and so it should have been registered 2008 rather than 2007. They also told me that they were going to forgo stamping production date on the engine mount in the future as it caused confusion. From them, not being argumentative about it. Sounds like you are a master tech so are up on this more than I.

Balancers, another thing. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

I'll reiterate.
Yamaha DOES use a production year.
its on a tag on the stbd bracket AND on the MSO from yamaha.
Manufactuers Statement of Origin.
now for parts or service or literature you go by the engine primary ID number,seriel.
now the LAST of the F150 motors with a red ring in the fuel cup manufactured prior to apr 06.apr 06 and up had water detect switches and used a green element instead of brown and the element part number is a 63p WS24a 00 00 NUMBER .
myself I would get the title taken care of while its still fresh in everyones mind.
the engines still come with year and month of production on the stbd side.
its only used by titles and bankers.
for parts or service engines produced after 05 require the engine PID to find the parts.
it allows mid year engineering changes to be added dring a producton run without having to wait until the next model year, you simply brek the PID range and start another with the modification right then.
My personal F150 was manufactured in marc of 07 and I installed it on my seapro in august of 07 and it HAS no red ring,uses a green not brown filter and has water detect and is rigged with comand link.
yamaha has a chart stating year of production based on seriel number.
so fix that title before it gets tough or you try to sell it as an 08 and a srvay shows its an 06.
may make a huge difference in financing it.
also may keep you out of trouble.
when you say Yamaha,did you call kennesaw GA or was that a dealer talking?
on your temp queston, I still dont know what gauge package as installed.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

Command Link for the gauges. I'm not concerned with the engines, the boat and engines were rigged as a package and I have paperwork that states all are 2007. I was reading on THT about a guy that recently purchased a brand new (built in 2005) F150 on a leftover boat and the motor was titled a 2009 as that is when he bought the package. Warranty starting from purchase in 2009. Reason I came across that is I was looking for a fix to my problem and if I recall he found a couple of injectors plugged.

The individual I spoke with is a zone rep or whatever they call them in the boat industry. Straight shooter, has helped me out.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

your simply F**ked
dont care what the dealer says your engines were manufactured befor apr 06 based on your description.
means if you advetise and sell them as later models the purchashr has legal recouse for the lost value.
look on the stbd transom bracket the tag will tell youthe of production.
the warrenty wont start until the first time the engines MSO is registered.
I deal with this at laest once a week, motors sold out the back door with no PID,motors sold on a verbal thing, then when thecustomer has an isue I have to call yamaha in kennesaw GA only to find that cutomer hs no warrenty cause it has 200 hours and was never registered.
trust me, a good yamaha tech would figgue this out at the survay very rapidly.
like when I enter the PID into the YMBS system.
it wil tell me the year of manufacture any recalls that have not been done and anything that has been done under warrenty.
take care of this title issue before it bites you.
it well could have been registered for warrenty purposes as the warrenty was activated in 08, the engine is still apr 06 or older.
plugged injectors are NOT a yamaha problem although its amazing how may they will cover.
yamaha has the most generous warrenty I have ever seen.
I have twisted wrenches for GM,Ford,Honda,Force,Mercury,Mercriser,Volvo, Go devil,Yamaha,Tohatsu, and a few others.
trust me, fix your title issue.
call the yamaha consumer line if needed but your dealer has the paper work screwed up.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

Hope this helps to clear the matter up! Time for me to hit the sack, take care bro.


http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/faq/viewfaqanswer/14/18/86/home.aspx

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

your either stupid,dumb as a box o rocks or cannot read.
its the same as what I have been telling you all day
based ON YOUR description YOUR engines were manufactured PRIOR to april of 2006.
year of production is only a concern with the legal stuff.

llook up tech bulliten o2006-013 AND o2006-010.
you will find either someone changed both your fuel cup assemblies or your engines were produced prior to apr 06.
dunno what to tell you other than the selling dealer, like the one I am involved in a lawsit, either misunderstood or lied.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

your either stupid,dumb as a box o rocks or cannot read.
its the same as what I have been telling you all day
based ON YOUR description YOUR engines were manufactured PRIOR to april of 2006.
year of production is only a concern with the legal stuff.

llook up tech bulliten o2006-013 AND o2006-010.
you will find either someone changed both your fuel cup assemblies or your engines were produced prior to apr 06.
dunno what to tell you other than the selling dealer, like the one I am involved in a lawsit, either misunderstood or lied.

I don't consider myself to be in need of grammar lessons and I read quite well too. Direct from the link I posted for you, year of manufacture is NOT relative to year of sale per Yamaha.

Yamaha Outboard FAQs

Category


Question
Why has the model year designation been eliminated from Yamaha Outboards?

Answer

Outboards do not change from one ?Model Year? to the next; therefore a ?Model Year? doesn?t communicate anything significant about the physical product.

Yamaha plans to introduce new products and upgrades to models on a continuous bases instead of only at the traditional ?model year change-over.? By eliminating the model year, Yamaha will be able to introduce new products (and upgrades) throughout the year, which means Yamaha will be better able to meet consumer needs in a fast changing market.

Additionally, dealers and boat builders are now better able to carry adequate inventory throughout the year because they won?t have to slim down inventory in advance of a new ?Model Year.? Therefore, there is a much better chance your dealer will have what you want, when you want it.

Here are answers to other frequently asked questions related to elimination of the model year designation.

God Bless, thanks for the help.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

your simply F**ked
dont care what the dealer says your engines were manufactured befor apr 06 based on your description.
means if you advetise and sell them as later models the purchashr has legal recouse for the lost value.
look on the stbd transom bracket the tag will tell youthe of production.
the warrenty wont start until the first time the engines MSO is registered.
I deal with this at laest once a week, motors sold out the back door with no PID,motors sold on a verbal thing, then when thecustomer has an isue I have to call yamaha in kennesaw GA only to find that cutomer hs no warrenty cause it has 200 hours and was never registered.
trust me, a good yamaha tech would figgue this out at the survay very rapidly.
like when I enter the PID into the YMBS system.
it wil tell me the year of manufacture any recalls that have not been done and anything that has been done under warrenty.
take care of this title issue before it bites you.
it well could have been registered for warrenty purposes as the warrenty was activated in 08, the engine is still apr 06 or older.
plugged injectors are NOT a yamaha problem although its amazing how may they will cover.
yamaha has the most generous warrenty I have ever seen.
I have twisted wrenches for GM,Ford,Honda,Force,Mercury,Mercriser,Volvo, Go devil,Yamaha,Tohatsu, and a few others.
trust me, fix your title issue.
call the yamaha consumer line if needed but your dealer has the paper work screwed up.

I'll look into that.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

Rodbolt you are exactly correct regarding the balancer, I am having it replaced. Thank you for the tip.

Absolutely everything on the engine checks out, no issues found. Yamaha suggested having the props checked, sometimes they are stamped incorrectly. Took to a shop and that is in process, he showed me the flat leading edges on the 6100 RPM prop and the cups on the 5600. May end up being the issue after all this.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

dude,
no such thig as a 6100 RPM or a 5600 RPM prop.
where do you get such wacked information?
never ever seen a Yamaha prop stamped incorrectly.
we need to clear one thing up.
when you keep saying"I talked to Yamaha" did you call the consumer hotline at the 800 number in Kennesaw GA or are you talking to the parts guy at the dealership that doesnt own a tool box?
its amazing some of the dumb things coming out of the sales dept and the parts dept.
however those positions require NO training only warm bodies.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

I know that, should have said 6100 RPM engine and 5600 RPM engine. One prop has blades that are slightly flattened, I could see that myself. Prop shop felt the differences in the props could cause the RPM differences.

In talking to Yamaha, I mean the senior district service rep.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

I doubt that.
unless you have access to a dealer franchise number the RTA are not allowed to discuss it.
most the consumer lines are manned by non technicians.
they may tell you anything on a technical question.
no such thing as a 5600 RPM engine or a 6100 RPM engine.
yes there are many blade designs,rake angles and pitchs and diameters.
hull design,weight,engine max RPM and load will determine prop type.
take a F150 mounted on a17ft flats boat with a simple center console.
probably would swing a 13.75 by 22 prop with an aggressive rake angle and very thin tips.
remember the thicker the blade the more water resistance it meets simply swinging in the water,also makes more torque steer.
dang, I just totalled my flats boat.
wow ebay has a 24 grady cuddy with a T top and full curtains with a 150 gallon fuel capacity.
all I do is shift the motors as its already set up for yamaha.
now I will post cause this crappy motor only turns 4200 whats wrong?
its cause that exact same engine on that 24 will struggle with a 13x17 and would most likly use a 13x15.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

Like I said, Yamaha is a top notch company and they have been working with me to get this boat straightened out. I'm not going to embellish any further re who I am talking to since they are good people and I maintain confidences, you can appreciate all of that I'm sure.

The deal with the RPM difference is two of the same engines running on the same boat but at different WOT RPM. One bad prop could explain most of that and a difference in engines the rest.

You are extremely knowledgeable, so what is your opinion about this: Would there be more resistance/friction loss inside the gear case of a counter rotating unit as opposed to right hand?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

none
the prop doesnt care which way it turns nor does the hull.
there are no differences in friction loss by simply taking the thrust on the aft gear rather than the fwd gear. in both cases the thrust is taken by a tapered roller bearing.
yes prop desighn can AND will make a difference and its incredibly hard to have 2 identical hulls.
would take some incredibly expensive blueprinting throught the manufacturing process that production line hulls simply wont have.
what your shoting for is the best performance at its normal load getting the RPM as close to 6000 as possible without going over with that F150.
at 6100 your most likly on the rev limiter and losing performance.
and yes Yamaha is a top notch company that very intrested in customer relations, thats why they are helping you even though its been a nasty gas and a rigging issue NOT a yamaha motor corp issue.
try that with merc or suzuki and they will hang up on you.

 

[Mr. Ross]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

I agree, it was a dealer/rigging issue and I am so glad that it happened with Yamaha because as you stated, otherwise I might have been out in the cold. We did not find a fuel issue, I thought it a possibility at first but after all the filter changes and cleaning it made no difference whatsoever. All that did was cost me $$ and time. Another plus is that I found a dealer (not real close by but worth the ride) that is taking up where the selling dealer failed.

God Bless and thanks for you advise rodbolt.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I'm getting frustrated with these outboards...

if the PDI was done correctly you still have fuel issues.
that white powdery stuff is still in the tank and will keep clogging filters.
trust me I have fought the stuff for 2 years.
the surface area on the injector filters is quite small and they restric easily.
with twins its easy, I would use test wheel YB1626, spin up the engine that seems to be running correct,observe the RPM, then shift it to the other engine, that will tell you quickly if its a rigging or prop issue.
YB1626 is bi-directional.