I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

[Bubba1235]

I'm an engineer so I am not knocking all engineers, but some, they should be taken out and horse whipped!


Got the John Deere garden tractor out today, did the tune up and oil change thing, sharpened blades, greased everything etc and set out to mow the lawn. About 10 minutes into it and I can smell raw gas, LOTS of it! Stopped, took it up to work on it and started pulling covers off and then fire it up to see what I can see.

Spotted it instantly, the fuel pump has a ruptured diaphram and fuel is spraying out a weep hole with every cycle of the fuel pump, DIRECTLY on to the HOT muffler! I am amazed the entire thing didn't go up in flames and roast my old behind in the process. (I'm not talking about a drip, a full stream under pressure.)

It's hard to imagine it but somewhere a John Deere enginer looked at the set up and gave it the go ahead. 20 cents of rubber hose would route the flow safely away in a failure like this but I suppose that would have shaved a fraction off the profit margin. Sigh...

 

[GTS225]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

I am an industrial maintenance tech, and see the same kind of errors.
I suspect it's due to college-educated mechanical engineers that have never actually had to turn a wrench before they get the computer and CAD programs. I still have the opinion that engineers should have to do an internship as a maintenance tech, much like a doctor has to do an internship. That way, when they do get to start drawing, they have the background that tells them that "somebody, somewhere, will have to actually repair what I come up with".

Roger

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

I am NOT an engineer, but I have more than enough sense not to try and run an engine when:

I can smell raw gas, LOTS of it!

:facepalm:

You must have missed that class in engineering school....

 

[QC]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

It's hard to imagine it but somewhere a John Deere enginer looked at the set up and gave it the go ahead.

A whole room full of them, along with Marketing people approved the Aztek

In his defense the manifold wasn't hot when he approved it :facepalm:

 

[bruceb58]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

It was either the manifold or the distributor...take your pick.

 

[QC]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

Actually the problem is gasoline . . . Can't fix 'dat ship

 

[Pascal]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

A lot of the mechanical designs are by engineers who are ticked off because some mechanic tried to date their daughter......

 

[southkogs]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

A whole room full of them, along with Marketing people approved the Aztek

... and the designers. Sheesh, what a train wreck that thing is.

 

[bigdee]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

I would have to disagree and cut the engineers some slack. This is just a garden tractor designed for a very competitive market. It is not the space shuttle with redundant fail-safe engineering. I suspect there was more cloning than engineering. The under-educated mechanic can second guess a team of engineers all he wants....but without engineers he wouldn't have anything to work on!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

actually, the engine is most likely a Kawasaki. most L&G manufactures treat them like a box - you connect the fuel to it, and the shaft turns. The engine is a commodity. most end customers do not even change the oil.

Garden tractors and any consumer power products are designed for a cut-throat market where people believe that there is no difference between high quality and the low $ wal-mart crap.

 

[Woodnaut]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

I am an industrial maintenance tech, and see the same kind of errors.
I suspect it's due to college-educated mechanical engineers that have never actually had to turn a wrench before they get the computer and CAD programs. I still have the opinion that engineers should have to do an internship as a maintenance tech, much like a doctor has to do an internship. That way, when they do get to start drawing, they have the background that tells them that "somebody, somewhere, will have to actually repair what I come up with".

Roger

Agreed. After college I did a few years in the engine room before I came ashore and started my career as a design Engineer. It gave me a clear advantage over many of my peers. It's fun to design stuff, build it, and then take the calls when there are questions or problems. I can relate to the Ops and Maintenance people and well as my co-workers trying to cook up the new designs. I work in the high tech end of the oilfield where safety and performance are always the top priorities. In the consumer market, however, it might be a little different story.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

Well, being both a mechanic and an engineer all I can say is this was a stupid mistake.


As an update, I got a new fuel pump from John Deere (local dealer) and its been redesigned with a drain hose. (Along with three pages explaining the danger and why the hose is needed and how to route it.)

Got home and searched on the internet and, oh my, lots of people have had it happen and many have lost their tractors and one fellow his home. (Tractor in the garage) It's a known issue with the Kawasaki water cooled engines and how JD set them up.

Oh yeah, the new fuel pump was $130 AND I had to pay for the drain hose and hose clamp. It was only $7 but dang it, I feel like I've been had.

that would be about a 25X markup on the part.

 

[NewfieDan]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

I have worked in the construction industry for the better part of 25yrs. I agree that engineers should have to do an internship, or something similar. I have found the best engineers to work with are either still young (EIT's) or have trade ticket in their discipline. There have been a few that have the "old school" mentality of "I am an engineer, you're just a tradesman, therefore I know more than you".

These are the ones that all the engineer jokes are made about.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

Many engineering decisions are based on the following 3 criteria that are quoted.

1. Price.
2. Delivery timing.
3. Quality of product.

You will generally get 2 of the above 3 criteria met and the other one sadly lacking.

 

[Fishing Dude too]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

should see an engineer do plumbing repair. A50cent fix cost $70
lol

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

should see an engineer do plumbing repair. A50cent fix cost $70
lol

no, thats sales and marketing. for the engineer, that would be $0.30000 material, and $0.20000 labor.

 

[tomdinwv]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

Worked as a mechanic on transit buses for many years. Some of the designs they came up with on those things made us wonder if the designers/engineers had any clue how things work in the real world. I'm not trashing all engineers. I met some on a visit to a bus builder's factory and they seemed to listen to suggestions and gripes coming from us poor souls how had to work on the stuff they produced. The way some things were wedged in those things is insane.

 

[BlkY2k]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

Bubba, what model was this? With my Dad gone now my stepmom is mowing with a newer jd. I just did the oil change and tuneup the other day. Speaking of witch how do ya like where the oil drain is?

 

[hog88]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

First, I doubt a JD engineer had anything to do with it. I'm pretty sure JD quit making mowers (home owner edditions) several years ago and just brand them for name recognition.

Second, I agree so engineers have no clue on practical use. Being in the environmental field I see pollution and storm water control devices that just make you scratch your head and ask what were they thinking. I'm sure almost everything these guys design works great in lab settings but when you throw in the grit, grime and trash you quickly find out they were not designed to be cleaned.

 

[bigdee]

Re: I'm an engineer and I still have to shake my head at some designs.

Roger I agree, mostly because I went the route of being a wrench bender before going back to school. I had to learn to bite my tongue in classes and not argue that things were very different in the real world.

Bubba you are the type of Engineer that I respect. As you know the Engineer has a professional code of ethics that demands he listens to everyone even if he has to filter the info. Communicating is collecting data which is the primary goal of an engineer. Most Engineers I know are wrench turners unfortunately there are ivy league engineers that chose that field for the wrong reasons or their parents made that decision for them.

?Engineers ... are not superhuman. They make mistakes in their assumptions, in their calculations, in their conclusions. That they make mistakes is forgivable; that they catch them is imperative. Thus it is the essence of modern engineering not only to be able to check one's own work but also to have one's work checked and to be able to check the work of others.?
- Henry Petroski -