I want to place a metal patch on a Zinc-Coated steel gasoline tank opening.

[cyclops222]

Non Ethanol gasoline only to be in the 40 gallon tank. Patch will seal the large round pump opening.
What types of gas flame sealing the round metal patch ? Solder, Silver Solder ?
Materials that the patch can be made of ? Copper Brass Stainless ?
What maximum hot weather pressures can be expected in 110F summer days ? What maximum VACUUM pressures can be expected in NJ Winters of - 10 F ?
I need to know to select P and V relief valves to protect the tank.

Thank you.

 

[Chris1956]

Top of tank right? Standard fuel tank gauge senders are sealed with rubber gaskets and self tapping screws. Tanks are vented, so no pressure build up is expected.

 

[dingbat]

Non Ethanol gasoline only to be in the 40 gallon tank. Patch will seal the large round pump opening.
What types of gas flame sealing the round metal patch ? Solder, Silver Solder ?
Materials that the patch can be made of ? Copper Brass Stainless ?
What maximum hot weather pressures can be expected in 110F summer days ? What maximum VACUUM pressures can be expected in NJ Winters of - 10 F ?
I need to know to select P and V relief valves to protect the tank.

Thank you.

How old is the tank?

Metal fuel tanks were fabricated using Terne sheet until they switched over to plastics.

Terne sheet is a lead, tin and antimony alloy used almost exclusively on fuel tanks when I got into the metals industry in the late 70’s.

It’s easy to solder, but considered hazardous materials these days because of the lead content.

New “vintage” tanks are galvanized steel coated with a “Terne” coatings

 

[Scott Danforth]

Get a cheap fuel sending unit, knock off the sender, modify it on the bench to seal it up so you don't meet Jesus, then install in the tank like the old sender

 

[racerone]

Agreed---- Fuel tanks are not worth fixing.----Fire on a boat is not funny.

 

[cyclops222]

Brand new never used fuel tank made of Zinc-Coated steel from JEGS . com. For use with the Generac 17 KW generator running gasoline. I can get all the NON E gas that lasts way over 2 years. Same stuff all over PA gas stations.
How much gas & Octane will I lose each year when stored out side in N J ?

 

[dingbat]

I can get all the NON E gas that lasts way over 2 years. Same stuff all over PA gas stations.
How much gas & Octane will I lose each year when stored out side in N J

Stabilized, stored in a sealed tank, just about forever
The E10 in mine is going on it's 3rd winter

 

[cyclops222]

Thank you dingbat. I will open the sealed tank tomorrow. To see if the 1 gallon in a SEALED CLOSED 40 gallon tank is O K with no slime separation on inside metal surfaces. If clean great. If gooky ? I will Acetone it if possible. Worst case ? I buy a new JEGS 40 gallon tank. Can not have crud being fed into the Emergency generator during a power failure. LIG Life is Good.

 

[dingbat]

Thank you dingbat. I will open the sealed tank tomorrow. To see if the 1 gallon in a SEALED CLOSED 40 gallon tank is O K with no slime separation on inside metal surfaces. If clean great. If gooky ? I will Acetone it if possible. Worst case ? I buy a new JEGS 40 gallon tank. Can not have crud being fed into the Emergency generator during a power failure. LIG Life is Good.

I can get by running the entire house with a 4,500 watt portable generator as I still have oil heat. Gives me a bit over 24 hours from 5 gallons of fuel.

Surprised you didn't go with a propane generator. Fill up the tank and forget about it until empty.

 

[airshot]

Brand new never used fuel tank made of Zinc-Coated steel from JEGS . com. For use with the Generac 17 KW generator running gasoline. I can get all the NON E gas that lasts way over 2 years. Same stuff all over PA gas stations.
How much gas & Octane will I lose each year when stored out side in N J ?

In my 70 plus years, I have never saw two year old gas still good without some type of stabilizing just like E fuels ! Back in the 60-70's before non E fuels were being used, a company called "gumout" was producing additives for gasoline stored for a year or more, so not much has really changed !! Shoulda went propane, lasts forever and safer !!

 

[Chris1956]

Around here propane is harder to get than gasoline. Analysis shows that 20# of propane and 5 gal gasoline power the generator for about the same time and cost. A much cheaper alternative is using natural gas as a fuel.

Most gasoline generators can be easily converted to natural gas or propane, although the conversion kits are a bit different.

 

[cyclops222]

I priced out Propane as a fuel. Best local fuel dealer said he could not FILL UP a tank until springtime. Quota used up. Oh well

 

[airshot]

Around here propane is harder to get than gasoline. Analysis shows that 20# of propane and 5 gal gasoline power the generator for about the same time and cost. A much cheaper alternative is using natural gas as a fuel.

Most gasoline generators can be easily converted to natural gas or propane, although the conversion kits are a bit different.

In my area, propane is readi!y available and the bigger the tank, the better the price. Most dealers give a good discount when buying over 1000 gallons. I have a 1K and a 500 gallon tanks which together can hold 1200 gallons total. I typically use from 1000 plus to 1150 gallons tops in the 25 years I have lived here. Typically save about .30 up to .60 cents per gallon to fill both tanks in the fall and that lasts a full year with ease. When the numbers are crunched, cheaper than natural gas !

 

[cyclops222]

Almost there. I could not be sure about the integrity of the big O ring sealing perfectly all summer with E 10 in it. So I ordered a new JEGS 42 gallon tank to be safer from any E gas slime in the old tank.
Mcmaster has some nice large, see thru, fuel filters. So will order 1 tomorrow. The 25' of 5/16" E10 gasoline hose came in. Should be there in about a week.
Will have Son in Law take some pictures for laughs. Total cost is about $600 for everything. Tom next door will help me with a 2nd shed assembly. To be used to store the generator. I am thinking of attaching a FOB controlled bumper winch to pull the generator into the shed. It is very heavy to move on a packed gravel driveway. I am felling very good for 2 days now. Have to finish this project before I am unable to.
L I G

 

[airshot]

E fuels will not bother a decent quality O ring, a chinieusm quality one mabey....been using E fuels since they came out with no issues if recommendations are followed.

 

[dingbat]

Around here propane is harder to get than gasoline.

Interesting….. we have no natural gas infrastructure to speak of. Everyone uses oil, propane or electric (heat pump) to heat.

Analysis shows that 20# of propane and 5 gal gasoline power the generator for about the same time and cost.

True, but propane is all about the convenience of long term storage between uses.

 

[dingbat]

Almost there. I could not be sure about the integrity of the big O ring sealing perfectly all summer with E 10 in it.

Have you run the calculations of how much gas you can keep in a sealed tank before the pressure buildup causes it to explode?

Would highly advise some sort of a pressure relief valve should things go south

 

[cyclops222]

I am waiting for a large tank manufacturer to reply on that topic.
Did cars and boats have SEALED gas tanks way back in time ?

 

[Chris1956]

Yes, gas tanks were sealed until maybe the late seventies. The vapor pressure of gasoline is only so much. Tanks in those days were built to survive it.

 

[cyclops222]

Good / fantastic news. JEGS new tank will be here Monday. If I can get the old tank cleaned out at a reasonable cost ? I will then have 2 40 gallon tanks of gasoline to run a long time if needed. About 2 weeks of winter cold snap conditions.

I have located a Brass 5 pound pressure relief valve to install on the tank. A Vacuum Relief valve is harder to find to prevent a almost empty tank in the winter from crumpling inward.
The large see thru gasoline filter of 10 microns arrived yesterday.
I am now at a serious point of how far apart the large plastic gasoline storage shed should be from the generator.
There is NO black plastic gasoline16 gallon gas tank anymore on top of the generator. So a massive uncontrollable fire is eliminated. I finally feel safer with the generator. I do have a connected big garden hose with water on. With a squeeze nozzle by the generator when running.
It has just been to cold in the garage to start construction of the 2nd large plastic storage shed. It is also a SUNCAST # BMS4700X. They are a FANTASTIC shed to assemble.

I am planning to mount the filter right next to the fuel tank to prevent water and dirt from building up in the long Nitrile fuel line.
Please post any thoughts about what I am trying to accomplish for our Total Electric House in a farmland area.