I just don't get it....at a complete loss

Leedanger

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May 29, 2011
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328
Merc 4.3LX with Thunderbolt IV serial# OFOO4.....

Idles great, very smooth, give it gas all it does is backfire before it hits 2500 rpm. This is what i've done so far:

Rewired harness
rebuilt carb
did tune up and timing
checked compression
changed exhaust manifold gaskets
replaced fuel pump
replaced water/fuel filter
checked gasoline quality (looked for separation, poured in a mason jar)
Changed check valve on gas tank pickup

Boat ran great for 4 months, then all of a sudden it wouldn't start...gripes!
 

boltonranger

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May 2, 2004
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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

It sounds timing related.
Did you perhaps misorder of your ignition wires?
-br
 

cr2k

Captain
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3,730
Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

1-3-4-2 firing order
 

tpenfield

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

+1 on the timing/ignition. I would check rotor and distributor for wear, as well as doing the basic timing adjustment.
 

Silvertip

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

2 barrel or 4 barrel carb??
 

Don S

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

Idles great, very smooth, give it gas all it does is backfire before it hits 2500 rpm.

What happens after 2500? Does it run ok, or not at all?

Was all the work you have listed done to try to fix the problem, or was it done before the problem came up?

When you "Rebuilt" the carb, did you soak it in carb cleaner, or use spray carb cleaner. Did you blow out all passages with compressed airt and verify the passages were clear? Does the accelerator pump work ok?

PS your firing order is 1-6-5-4-3-2 for your V6.
 

Leedanger

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

Around 2500 or before it will backfire, sometimes it will return to idle if I let of the throttle at that point, other times it will just dies, but in either case it won't run rev'd at all. Before all of this work was done it just wouldn't start at all, literally ran good one day wouldn't start the next. It's the weber 4 bbl carb and yes when I cleaned it, I broke it all the way down and gave it a good soak, I feel confident that I did it correctly, I've done this same carb a dozen or more times on different boats in the past. When I disconnect the throttle and give it a pump it will squirt a healthy stream into the venturi, however I certainly believe it's a fuel issue by the way it smokes and hisses if I pump fuel in there after it backfires and dies.

I was reading in the manual and it states that if the timing chain was ever serviced (I don't know if it was or wasn't) that the engine MUST be set to #4 cylinder TDC. Again I don't believe it to be timing. Wouldn't it backfire just while idling if it was timing and/or run much rougher at idle? In the manual it doesn't state which way is bow or stern when it gives you the cylinder layout, but I matched it up in relation to where the dist sits and I had a few others confirm this is correct (starting from port bow side 1,3,5 starboard side starting again bow 2,4,6) and firing order as Don stated 1,6,5,4,3,2,. I inspected the ignition module and dist cap and rotor...I suppose it could be replaced but I've seen MUCH worse run considerably better.

This is the motor however that has the car starter on it, I asked about the wire for it in a previous thread and I haven't swapped that out yet. The purple w/yellow wire that runs over to the third post on the starter (runs the oil switch and fuel pump) I have running instead over to the + on the coil. I don't see how this would cause this particular problem unless it's burned up the points between now and the last time I checked them, but I suppose if everyone here agrees it's what I will redo next....planned on doing it right anyways.

Back to the gas, if I can run the fuel pump disconnected into a gas can from the gas tank and it has a continuous undisturbed stream, does that mean I can eliminate gas tank air locking, bad pickup from tank, and anti-syphon as being the issue? I was reading a thread on here concerning these issues for people that were rebuilding carbs unsuccessfully. Lastly, on the IV Thunderbolt you do NOT have to ground out the purple lead on the ignition module to set into base timing correct? I read it to be only the Thunderbolt V and later or models with a knock sensor which I don't believe I have that need to follow this procedure. If I was supposed to, I didn't and I'd guess that to be the problem.
 

Technorunner

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

I think this will draw to much amps from the coil and there for it missfires. Try and connect the wire to oilswitch and fuelpump directly to battery + ONLY while you check if it still missfires.
The reason i think i dont missfires is that in idle the coil have enough time to "charge" while when reving it it need all amps to have time to charge the coil to get enough discharge to the spark. But if you take some of that amps away the spark will get to weak while reving.
 

Don S

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

if I can run the fuel pump disconnected into a gas can from the gas tank and it has a continuous undisturbed stream, does that mean I can eliminate gas tank air locking, bad pickup from tank, and anti-syphon as being the issue?

No, not really, no pressure on the pump. Hook up a pressure gauge to test fuel pump pressure.

You can run it on a remote fuel tank (outboard tank) to eliminate the tank.

You should also get a vacuum gauge and hook it up to manifold vacuum and see what it tells you.
 

Leedanger

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

No, not really, no pressure on the pump. Hook up a pressure gauge to test fuel pump pressure.

You can run it on a remote fuel tank (outboard tank) to eliminate the tank.

You should also get a vacuum gauge and hook it up to manifold vacuum and see what it tells you.

That was my next thought...I just went and bought a fuel pressure gauge and I have an ext tank I can set up to try out. I'm sure I'll be checking back in...thanks E1
 

Leedanger

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

Just wanted to close out this thread with a great big thank you. I re-rebuilt the carb and put better quality spark plugs on it, I also removed the anti-syphon valve on the gas tank, I guess if someone steals all the gas out so be it....better than it not working for now. Anywho....it's running smooth as a babies bottom now so I am very grateful for the support.

Cheers!
 

paultjohnson

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

Just wanted to close out this thread with a great big thank you. I re-rebuilt the carb and put better quality spark plugs on it, I also removed the anti-syphon valve on the gas tank, I guess if someone steals all the gas out so be it....better than it not working for now. Anywho....it's running smooth as a babies bottom now so I am very grateful for the support.

Cheers!
Ummm The anti siphon valve isnt to prevent theft of fuel. It prevents fuel from siphoning into the bilge if a fuel line springs a leak . Its an important safety feature to prevent u from gettn' blowed up by a spark igniting fuel vapors.
 

Don S

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

Ummm The anti siphon valve isnt to prevent theft of fuel. It prevents fuel from siphoning into the bilge if a fuel line springs a leak . Its an important safety feature to prevent u from gettn' blowed up by a spark igniting fuel vapors.

I agree, replace an anti-siphon valve, don't eliminate it. They are there for a reason.
 

Leedanger

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

Ummm The anti siphon valve isnt to prevent theft of fuel. It prevents fuel from siphoning into the bilge if a fuel line springs a leak . Its an important safety feature to prevent u from gettn' blowed up by a spark igniting fuel vapors.

Of course....should have considered that. I'm glad I took the time to post a thank you now. I was gonna put it back regardless but now I know WHY I'm putting it back. Thanks again.
 

gus-gus

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

I will jump in here with my thought. I think the timing belt has jumped one cog. Or as most like to hear it one tooth. I have had a couple vehicles jump a cog and act just like that. Check your cam/crank/distributor timing, one of those is off a bit.
 

Don S

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Re: I just don't get it....at a complete loss

I will jump in here with my thought. I think the timing belt coghas jumped one.

But it's fixed now, and it wasn't a timing belt, that and it doesn't have one.
 
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