i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

pnwboat

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Oct 8, 2007
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Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

To check if the coil mounting plate is properly grounded to the block, set you meter to OHMs. If it's not an auto-ranging meter, set it to the lowest setting for OHMs. Put one lead on the block, the other on the mounting plate. Make sure you're getting a good connection. Sometimes the paint and crud will need to be cleaned off. You should read a dead short. There should be a black wire that is attached to the mounting plate and the block. You'll have to kind of look around for it. This wire is what connects the two together (plate to the block).

The coil ground wires are on the back side of the mounting plate. The wire is attached to one of the bolts that mounts the coil to the plate. Just make sure they are there and connected. Taking the plate off the motor to check them is probably not worth the effort and can create problems if you aren't careful.

Next I would do the idle test and momentarily pull a plug wire off to see if the idle changes. If it does not, note the cylinder. It may be helpful in focusing on where to look next. If I were a betting man, I would bet that when you pull #4 off, the idle won't change. I could be wrong though. You never know, and don't assume anything.

Next check the rectifier. Easiest way to check this is to disconnect the two Green/Yellow wires going to it. Tape the ends off and perform the idle test again. If the problem goes away, replace it. Radio Shack has a replacement full wave bridge rectifier for less than $5.

Next check the resistance of the stator. Follow the two Blue wires and two Yellow wires that come out from underneath the flywheel. These are the stator windings that supply the voltage to the two CD modules. They go to the 12 position terminal block on the side of the block. The wires should have numbers on them 1 - 4. Don't get them confused with the Blue and Yellow wires that come from the CD modules. They are also marked 1 - 4. Note which terminals they are attached to. Disconnect the Blue and Yellow stator wires marked 1 & 2. Measure the resistance resistance between them. It should read between 680 and 850 OHMs. Reconnect them and do the same thing with the Blue and Yellow stator wires marked 3 and 4. Note, the reading on each par should be within 5 or 10 OHMs of each other. Also, make sure your fingers are not touching the metal part of the leads or stator wires. The meter might read your body resistance and not give a true stator winding resistance reading.

If everything checks out OK, then you may have a bad/weak CD module or coil. First switch #4 coil , or which ever cylinder didn't change in idle speed with one of the other ones and perform the idle test momentarily pulling off a plug wire. If the problem doesn't move then you know it's not a coil. Next reverse the two CD modules. This is where things can easily go wrong if you aren't careful. Make sure you have a good understanding of what you're going to do with the wires and what terminals they are going to go on. Do the idle test again and if the problem moves, then you probably have a bad/weak CD module.

Looking at the spark with a tester or a grounded plug outside the motor gives you a general idea of the spark energy and you can sometimes see a difference, blue or bluish almost clear color spark is good, orange no so good but this test is pretty subjective. Different people see different things especially if they are borderline. What the spark test doesn't do is give you an indication of how the spark is performing inside the cylinder during actual running conditions. Running conditions inside a cylinder are completely different than outside of the cylinder.
 

labawg

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Sep 19, 2010
Messages
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Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

Hahahahha...

Ok i will but why would the rpms would change between both spark plugs

Mike

That I could not tell you, on my 1984 125hp converted to use blue packs, i run 5000-5200 rpm 40-41 mph (GPS) with 17p prop on a 1984 aluminum Crestliner. I use both BUHW and BUHX and are about the same except the X's run smoother.
 

fisheymikey

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Jul 30, 2012
Messages
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Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

well well well..... PNWBOAT said... I removed the plug on cylinder 4 and nothing changed. I double checked with another coil same thing.

now im assuming whats left its the cd module. whats getting me mad is I have another engine and I have the black box instead of the blue ones. again im assuming I caant switch them? the other engine has all coils and cd module black and one blue coil.

the engine I am using has the blue coils all around and cd boxes.

I saw on the web the cd modules comes in a pack of 2 and runs around 400$!!!

should I reverce the modules to double check or it is a definite. is there a way to test the modules witj a mulimeter

mike

p.s. I did had to cut the other wire that is coming from the module and insert a male. does that make a difference. are they different type of coils to different plugs?
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
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Oct 8, 2007
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Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

Before you go any further, check the compression on all 4 cylinders just to make sure the rings and cylinders are in good shape. Don't want to go chasing what is assumed as an ignition system problem if the real cause is low compression on a cylinder.

If compression is within specs, the next step would be to check the stator winding resistance. Remember, don't assume anything. At this point, all you know is that it appears that there may be something going on with #4 cylinder.

As far as switching the Blue and Black CD modules, I would not advise it. I've seen guys that have done so, but I would be kind of leery of doing it.

One thing that you need to be aware of is that a bad CD module may be firing both plugs just fine, and the good CD module, may not. The bad CD module can interfere with the good one.

If you get to the point of needing a CD module, you have some options but don't assume that you have a bad one just yet.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,037
Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

The PROPER plug for that motor is the Champion UL-18V Thats what the factory put in when assembled.
If your having a no spark situation.It probably isin't the coil.
I've been doing this for almost 28years and have found 0 bad coils???
The next thing is when changing the wiring harness around, it possible you broke a connection under the shrink wrap.
If I work on any systems I change all the connectors on all the wires. You can pull on a wire with the shrink wrap and think it's good,but can be broken inside.
Then check the packs,swap them around.
The mixing of the blue and black is ok. The manufacturer says not to but I've never had a problem when I do it.
I think they just want to sell you a second unit.
The stator is the most likely place to go bad.Test it first.
You have the factory manual?
If not, outboard ignition . com or CDI ignition will have test procedures.
You can do the basic tests with a regular analog meter.
To get to the hard tests you'll need a "peak reading voltmeter" Depending on the guage? you might be able to buy an add on piece to turn your meter into a PRVM.
 

fisheymikey

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
450
Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

The PROPER plug for that motor is the Champion UL-18V Thats what the factory put in when assembled.
If your having a no spark situation.It probably isin't the coil.
I've been doing this for almost 28years and have found 0 bad coils???
The next thing is when changing the wiring harness around, it possible you broke a connection under the shrink wrap.
If I work on any systems I change all the connectors on all the wires. You can pull on a wire with the shrink wrap and think it's good,but can be broken inside.
Then check the packs,swap them around.
The mixing of the blue and black is ok. The manufacturer says not to but I've never had a problem when I do it.
I think they just want to sell you a second unit.
The stator is the most likely place to go bad.Test it first.
You have the factory manual?
If not, outboard ignition . com or CDI ignition will have test procedures.
You can do the basic tests with a regular analog meter.
To get to the hard tests you'll need a "peak reading voltmeter" Depending on the guage? you might be able to buy an add on piece to turn your meter into a PRVM.

jerry i have spark but when i remove the last spark plug boot on cylinder 4 i don't get any change. what boggles my mind i do see a spark when i ground it outside of the whole.

changing to champion instead of ngk could be the problem?

which harness... the one leading to front console or the one leading to the cdi modules. i should cut every wire and reinstall?

no i don't have a book.

pnwboat... i have done a compression test a few months ago 141 on all cylinders.

so i guess testing the strator is the next step

ill post soon

mike
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,906
Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

if you have a good spark (check with spark plug tester is the best way) and one cylinder does not make a diffrence to the sound of the motor when you pull the plug wire then i would stop looking at the electrical and look at the fuel system
 

fisheymikey

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Messages
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Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

http://forums.iboats.com/other-outboard-brands/nkg-buhx-vs-champion-l76v-145674.html

i basically have the same situation. that's why mu buhw run better. i have a weak ignition somewhere i get excactly 2-300 rpms better

buhw need less current to work. does that mean i could damage my system or should i just use the buhw untile the proplem is more obvious. i did a lot of research and ppl spent lot of money without getting to the bottom of it.

mike
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

You won't do any damage running the BUHW plugs. Looks like Jerry has swapped the Blue and Black modules. If the stator checks out and if you feel up to it, try swapping them as a test and take it out and see what that fourth plug looks like. It should have the carbon on it just like the other three.
 

fisheymikey

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Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
450
Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

i tested also the rectifier buy disconecting it no change on reaction of plugs
i just tested the stator 678 ohms on both.
its under spec by 2ohms. is that reason of the weak spark
and if 678 ohms is sufficient do i change both cdi black?
mike
 

fisheymikey

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
450
Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

little bugger.jpg

this fell right off!!!! could this be the culprit??!!! i just cant believe it would be as simple as that it was attach? to the same coil cylinder 4

well i don't have any forks so i need to wait until tomorrow
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

Yes it could possibly be the cause. Replace it and see if there is any difference.

Jerry mentioned broken wires inside the heat shrink. Not that uncommon with the Prestolite ignition system. Right at the spade lug connector there is a small piece of black heat shrink covering the solder connection. The heat shrink holds the wire to the spade lug connector but the strands of wires inside the heat shrink are actually broken.

You can replace the spade lug connectors to eliminate them as a problem.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,037
Re: i istalled the wrong installed the wrong spark plugs!!!!!

Yup "could" be the problem.
Like I said, replace ALL the connectors.
While it may spark a little,the bad connection isin't good enough to fire under load.
 
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