I don't need no stinkin' stringers, right?

Madman_Stephan

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May 15, 2016
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Ok, my on-going restification (restoration & modification) on my 16.5 ft bowrider into a fun fishing boat is progressing nicely. The rotten floors & stringers are out, and just getting ready to clean up the inner hull. I'm thinking about not installing stringers between the floor and hull. Am I crazy? What's the purpose of the stringers except to provide strength to the floor? I could easily do that by attaching metal studs to the new plywood. Do the stringers also contribute to the structural integrity of the hull?
 

Madman_Stephan

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May 15, 2016
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Ok, now here's an idea: instead of using wood, what if I make my stringers out of rigid insulation foam (pink or blue) encapsulated in fiberglass? The compression strength of foam is pretty good, not like it would collapse easily.
 

sphelps

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 16, 2011
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You could do that but would need to make the glass layup really thick ... Poly resin will melt the foam so you would need to use epoxy resin unless you cover the foam with a really good layer of packing tape or something ... Epoxy would be better but WAY more expensive ..
 

jbcurt00

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Oct 25, 2011
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Foam stringers require additional fiberglass over plywood stringers to accomplish the same strength.

How much more? Enough, I'm not a boat designer...

Its a fiberglass boat, whats the plan for flotation foam below deck and elsewhere?

Pix of your boat would be helpful...
 

Woodonglass

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Dec 29, 2009
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You'll learn somethings from this... (credit to Jamil Mehdi from Fiberglassics.com)

Stringers

What is a stringer and how does it work?
The answer to the first part of the question is easy and widely understood. The answer to the second half of the question is much more likely to be misunderstood.

What is a stringer?
A stringer is a longitudinal support along the inside of the hull. Its role in boat construction is to stiffen the hull. Sounds simple right?

How does it work?
This is where things get a little trickier.
The most important characteristic of a fiberglass stringer is its profile, its shape in other words. Let me illustrate this point with an analogy. Imagine you have a flat piece of steel. The steel is 1/4? thick, only an inch wide, and it's 15' long. If you pick up the steel from one end and held it level to the ground, the other end would sag considerably.
Now imagine you have a cardboard tube. The tube is also 1/4? thick and 15' long. If you pick up the tube from one end and hold it level to the ground, you can imagine that the tube would hardly flex at all. This isn't because cardboard is stronger than steel. The cardboard is more rigid because the cardboard is a tube and the steel is flat. This is basically how fiberglass stringers work. It's their shape that provides the support, the core is simply there as a form.
In present day manufacturing of boats, builders are hyper conscious of Strength-to-Weight ratios. Stringers, deck beams and other supportive elements are formed in one continuous mold and glassed into a bare hull as a ?pan? with no core material whatsoever.
In Fiberglassic repair, we're dealing with the technology and knowledge that existed fifty or sixty years ago. In the early days of fiberglass construction (mid 50s and earlier), the stringer core material was given the structural duty, with a layer or two of fiberglass overlay simply to hold it in place. By the late 50s this mistake was largely rectified by reversing those roles. The structural element of the stringers became fiberglass while the core became more of a shape.
One thing to note about this role reversal though, is that boat builders, as recently as a few years ago, did not understand this principle and relied on the core for at least some of the structural duty of the stringer. For this reason, any repair to or removal of a stringer core should be followed by adding additional layers of mat and roving.
Side note: The previous sentence ended with the words ?mat and roving,? because additional thickness of the stringer is the goal. Adding layers of mat and cloth wouldn't build up thickness as quick.
Another side note: When building up stringer thicknesses, I use a crude formula. I have no idea if these numbers are ideal, too strong, or too weak, but I would be interested in hearing from a naval architect on the subject.
I build up the stringer wall thickness according to the length of the boat. Typically, I use ?? of thickness for every 10' of stringer length. There are variables to this formula, such as the number of stringers and their profile (some profiles are stronger than others). Box beam type stringers are stronger than half-circle profiles because it more closely resembles true I-beam construction.
The forms were made out of whatever was handy. In the Northwest, you'll find many forms made out of Spruce or Fir, In the Northeast, you'll find many made out of Pine. You'll find many boats all over that used plywood as a form. Usually the stringers will be in box form (a rectangular profile) because that was the simplest construction method. They are then glassed to the hull and ?Presto!? you have a stringer! On my Banshee, the stringers were preformed semicircles with no core, which were later glassed in.
When you understand that it's the shape of the stringer and not whats inside of it that provides the rigidity, it makes problems much easier to solve. The truth is, just about anything that will not melt from the styrene in fiberglass resins will work as a form.
Cardboard is actually a fantastic core material. It is light weight, readily available everywhere and so cheap it can often be found for free. The downside it that it is already rigid enough that you may have a hard time getting it to conform to the shape of the hull.
Urethane foam is probably the best substrate you can use. It can be easily shaped to any complex curve. It is perfectly compatible with resin and it is highly rot resistant. Unfortunately, it is cost prohibitive to most hobbyists and not always readily available.
Plywood will also work just fine as a core material. It is much more stable than solid wood. It's also available everywhere. It's cheap. And, though it's harder to shape than urethane, it's not beyond the ability of most DIYs. The problem with plywood is that it's susceptible to rot.
Although the profile of the stringer is by far the most important factor in building a fiberglass stringer, rot is still a concern that must be addressed. Rotted wood will add a considerable amount of weight via moisture absorption. Additionally, the rapid expansion of wood from moisture absorption can cause the stringer to delaminate from the hull. For this reason, whether using plywood as a core material or not, great care should be taken to ensure that moisture stays on the outside of the stringer.
The only medium for stringer construction I absolutely do not recommend is solid wood. Because plywood is made from alternating grain directions of lumber, it is orders of magnitude more stable than solid wood. Solid wood will expand and contract with humidity and temperature variations and can ultimately fracture the fiberglass lamination to the hull. Do Not Use Solid Wood As A Core Material!
 

mickyryan

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Apr 18, 2016
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from what I have gleaned over the years and looking at this wood on glass is spot on, if you want to make sure you have no wood in the boat you could easily use cardboard as the form and then put down thick fiberglass however since there is no exact science that anyone has figured out for proper strength you would be guessing as does almost everyone else including boat builders.
why? the human factor, because humans do the layup it is imperfect even the very best can get microscopic air pockets weakening it(vacuum bagging has improved this issue) therefore usually you will build it even thicker to overcome that possible problem, also what wood said about the fiberglass cracking is dead on especially on wood boats hence the reason I chose to forgo encapsulating the wood on my boat topside, I couldn't guarantee 100 % encapsulation therefore it was a waste of money
My personal opinion is use wood because even my wooden stringers only had glass halfway up and still lasted 30 + years I did encapsulate my stringers and feel they will easily last another 30 if the boat even was around then , I have my doubts that fiberglass has a 100 yr lifespan in boat applications but eh who knows :)
 

fhhuber

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Jun 19, 2014
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In the late 50's/early 60's there were some fiberglass boats using a steel framework instead of wood stringers.

There are also modern "engineered" materials such as the planks made from recycled plastics in park benches that might be useful for eliminating wood in a boat.
Some have been tried with varying degrees of success.

There are all sorts of things you can try if you are willing to risk it not working.

Wood stringers are used because the boat makers know how much wood they need to make the boat strong enough for the way its expected to be used.
 

Madman_Stephan

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May 15, 2016
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5
Thanks everyone! I have a lot of photos I could post, and WILL post at some point, but this page doesn't have automatic resizing, and all my pics are too large. So for now, I can tell you that the previous owners had the right intentions when they restored this boat 15-20 years ago, but they weren't thorough enough with waterproofing the wood. The stringers that I've removed had the structural strength of moist brownies.... This is why I was looking at eliminating the stringers, or making them out of another material. I think I will stick with wood, plywood to be precise, and build some lightweight stringers by hollowing out the center, except for where structural strength is required. So, 3 layers of ply, with the center section having as many 3" holesaw cuts as I can put in it.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Jul 23, 2011
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eliminating stringers is like eliminating your backbone and assuming you can do the same amount of work - not going to happen with any good results. pay your insurance to take care of your loved ones when you die, and do not take anyone else along with you when the boat breaks up and sinks.

properly restoring a boat and encapsulating the stringers will result in a boat that lasts for many decades after.

Todays engineered stringers and stringer tubs go thru thousands of hours of analysis and testing to ensure safety and longevity.

why are you planning on drilling 3" holesaw cuts? if your thoughts are to remove weight, you will actually add weight and about 3 times the labor and double the glass and resin than simply building the stringers and moving on with your project. that little 3" diamter slug of wood weighs less than the fiberglass you will be forcing into the area. not to mention that you have to round the hole edges, and do a proper layup then to try to encapsulate this with the fiberglass not wanting to cooperate in the holes. same goes for trying to make hollow stringers. you are over thinking the rebuilding process to the point the engineer in me cringes.

if you want to post pics, read the sticky on posting pics.
 
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