How Times Have Changed.

smokeonthewater

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

With two people who know what they are doing my 28'er takes no more than 2-3 minutes to launch or load... Not counting time to load or unload junk n people of course... also not counting time away from the ramp to remove or replace straps/plug....

the ski's take about the same amount of time.

With only one person it takes me about 5-8 minutes ... main difference being that I have to tie up and walk back to the truck.
 

emilsr

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Dec 16, 2010
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Re: How Times Have Changed.

Not really.
My SD has way taller tires than anything offered years ago and you can get anything from 3.73 to 4.30.
Fuel economy mandates dictated higher gear ratio's. And transmissions can have far lower 1st gears than they did back in the day.

That's my point.....15-20% larger in diameter in most cases today, which requires a higher numerical (lower gears) gear ratio rear axle. If it were about fuel economy you'd have a lower (numerical) gear ratio to keep the revs down.

Good point about the transmissions. Back in "the day", a Chevy pickup with an automatic had 3 gears with a 1:1 3d gear. My last truck (a '97 model GMC) also had a 4th overdrive gear (that you couldn't use when towing). My new Chevy truck has 6 gears (the top 2 are overdrives), 5 gears in tow mode....and like you said, the low gears are lower than they used to be.

Times have changed, and definitely for the better.
 

Bronlonius

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

Yup, 1st gear in an old 3 speed automatic was generally only 2.5:1.... don't know the exact numbers for newer ones but I know they are definitely lower, and they are also designed for the engine/vehicle they are mated with to work as a system. Back in the 70's most cars were generally only 2-3 types of "one size fits all" transmissions that went in all of the cars, so you either ended up with a highway cruiser or a stump puller depending on the axle ratio.
 

ricohman

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

That's my point.....15-20% larger in diameter in most cases today, which requires a higher numerical (lower gears) gear ratio rear axle. If it were about fuel economy you'd have a lower (numerical) gear ratio to keep the revs down.

Good point about the transmissions. Back in "the day", a Chevy pickup with an automatic had 3 gears with a 1:1 3d gear. My last truck (a '97 model GMC) also had a 4th overdrive gear (that you couldn't use when towing). My new Chevy truck has 6 gears (the top 2 are overdrives), 5 gears in tow mode....and like you said, the low gears are lower than they used to be.

Times have changed, and definitely for the better.

I should have said "fuel economy mandates in the 70's and 80's dictated higher gears". Like the 8 1/4 chrysler with 2.24. This ratio was offered for economy, nothing more. But the 2.4 was hardly any better.
 

emilsr

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

I should have said "fuel economy mandates in the 70's and 80's dictated higher gears". Like the 8 1/4 chrysler with 2.24. This ratio was offered for economy, nothing more. But the 2.4 was hardly any better.

That's what I thought you meant. ;)
 

airshot

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

There are many things that have changed over the years and one of the is the amount of common sense a person has. No longer is it your responsibility to make sure you know what you are doing. Yes cars have gotten safer and lives have been spared,but there are still people out there doing stupid things. I would rather be alongside someone in a 72 nova towing a boat that understands their limitations as opposed to some knucklehead who went out and bought his new suv or pickup to tow his new boat and thinks that all the work has been done for him and doesn't need to worry about anything. Responsibility for your actions can not be given away when you sign on the dotted line. You are still responsible for knowing what you are doing and what your limitations are, not just knowing the tow capacity for your vehicle.

Right On....well said..............
 

F14CRAZY

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

That's my point.....15-20% larger in diameter in most cases today, which requires a higher numerical (lower gears) gear ratio rear axle. If it were about fuel economy you'd have a lower (numerical) gear ratio to keep the revs down.

Good point about the transmissions. Back in "the day", a Chevy pickup with an automatic had 3 gears with a 1:1 3d gear. My last truck (a '97 model GMC) also had a 4th overdrive gear (that you couldn't use when towing). My new Chevy truck has 6 gears (the top 2 are overdrives), 5 gears in tow mode....and like you said, the low gears are lower than they used to be.

Times have changed, and definitely for the better.

My LeSabre has 70 series 15'' tires...I don't think the outer diameter is any smaller than like a new Malibu or Impala with 18''s or higher. Axle ratios are higher these days since there's overdrive (or multiple overdrive gears).
 

bigdee

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

Back in the fifties you bought a boat and hooked it to whatever you had without a second thought. A 1953 chevy pickup weighs LESS than todays pickup and only had 108 hp. Yet it pulled whatever we wanted from camper to a boat to a farm trailer with a 4000lb tractor on it. The difference was common sense and realizing the dynamics and doing things slower.
 

slowleak

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

About 8 years ago I sold my 19' Renken to a buddy, for years I towed that boat with my 1989 Town Car (with a factory tow package and hitch). He had no tow vehicle, and wasn't interested in buying the car.
The boat weighed in at maybe 2500lbs tops on the trailer counting the trailer, fuel, boat, etc.
He right away went out and bought a 3500HD diesel GMC truck, full tow package, four door, 4x4, the works for the tune of something like $58K.
(All to tow a $1500 boat). His first weekend out with the new truck and my old boat went ok but he said the boat towed like a ton of bricks, he couldn't imagine how I ever moved that thing with my Lincoln.
I towed that boat for more than 10 years with that car, which at the time I sold the boat had accrued about 175,000 miles or so on the odometer. I bought it new and towed with it from day one.
It pulled that boat with ease, had zero issues launching it, and it even got decent mileage on longer trips towing. I also towed a 26' travel trailer with that car. It averaged about 17 mpg with the RV, and 19 mpg with the boat on a few 200 mile trips.

My neighbor though thought it felt heavy behind his diesel truck. I even went so far as going with him to the ramp and that truck felt every last buck and jerk from the trailer. On my car, the hitch put the boat slightly bow down on the road, it gave it a fair amount of tongue weight. On his truck, he went out of his way to make sure the boat was dead level, he moved the boat back on the trailer to give him more room between the bow stop and the tailgate, (so the gate would open with the trailer attached), and he was carrying both extra fuel tanks, his ice and coolers, and fishing gear in the truck, not in the boat. He had reduced the tongue weight to the point where he could wheel the boat around by hand with ease. On the way back I piled everything in the bow of the boat, it towed much better but he refused to listen and still complains about how hard that boat is to tow.

I still tow with my car, I've got a 2003 Crown Vic I bought used which also has a factory 2" receiver hitch on it. It does just fine with my 17' bass boat, and does it better than my truck does, and can carry up to four people while my truck, don't have room for passengers in the cab. I've also towed a buddies 18' cuddy cabin with my car, it does fine, I pulled that all the way to FL, over 1200 miles each way last summer with no problems and got 23 mpg doing it. My 1/2 ton truck would have had trouble getting 15 mpg and has far less pulling power. The car also has better traction on slipper ramps, I have to add weight to the bed of my truck, the car don't have any issues with traction.

I pull my boat roughly 10 miles here to the ramp, on occasion I haul it further to another location, but both ramps are concrete, both have lengthy dirt roads leading to them. I also don't care about leaving my car while I'm out boating and it don't seem to attract the attention that a truck does at the ramp. I'm only pulling about 1500lbs or so these days but it'll do more. I still have the old camper and have towed it as far as Virginia with my Crown Vic and its done that for almost 8 years now without any failures.
None of my trailers have brakes, they weren't built with brakes. If the factory didn't feel they were needed, I certainly am not adding them. The RV is a 26' single axle, with a coil spring suspension built in the mid 1960's, its super light and it don't 'feel' heavy at all in tow. My 12' jon boat 'feels' worse behind my car since it bounces and bobs all over the place on rough roads. When towing the camper I use a pair of 7500lb equalizer bars to stabilize the trailer a bit.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

Yep, people think that when they buy a new (first) boat it comes with experience as one of the options. Including towing experience.

They are the worst to be around--don't know and won't learn.

It's all about the "instant on" attitude--maybe we need to go back to TV's and motors that need to warm up, to instill a little cultural patience.
 

emilsr

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

My LeSabre has 70 series 15'' tires...I don't think the outer diameter is any smaller than like a new Malibu or Impala with 18''s or higher. Axle ratios are higher these days since there's overdrive (or multiple overdrive gears).

You can't compare your old Buick with a new Impala; they're miles apart in design (and towing ability).

A more fair comparison would be your Buick with a modern pickup (body on frame construction, v-8 engine, rear wheel drive, solid rear axle). Their tires are about 6" taller than your F70-15's.

One of my dad's old friends had an Electra 225 ('bout a '71 model) that he used to haul flatbed trailers from east Texas back to Colorado. He'd tow 'em 2 deep and stacked 3 high. I'm not sure how smart that was, but he did it a lot....and that big old Buick didn't skip a beat.
 

500dollar744ti

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

I've been towing a ~5000lb trailer/boat combo with an '83 F150, the first time I tried, the truck could not do it. It has large tires and originally 3.08 gears and a c6. Today's V6 F150 would tow this load with ease but not my '83. Sure a C6 is a bulletproof/reliable trans but it only has 3 gears and that hurts towing no matter how you look at it.

My truck has a factory tow/plow package and the suspension is up to the task but the drivetrain was not. With a stock 302 and 3.08 gears it was incapable of pulling 5000lbs up an incline or on the highway. The first time I tried to get up a hill, I had to stop and put it in low-range to make it, that's when I turned around and decided I needed to do something different.

In order to make the truck capable of towing my boat, I've swapped in a 1989 302HO (225hp) and changed rear and front gears to a 4.10 ratio. Only after those modifications has it been able to tow reliably and pull the boat up a hill on the highway without loosing speed.

In comparison, I have also towed this boat with a 1997 F150 and 2005 Volvo SUV, both of which are more capable than my big 30 year old V8 truck.
 

haulnazz15

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

I've been towing a ~5000lb trailer/boat combo with an '83 F150, the first time I tried, the truck could not do it. It has large tires and originally 3.08 gears and a c6. Today's V6 F150 would tow this load with ease but not my '83.

A tired 302 and a 3.08 rear end will do that. If you had just changed out the gears and not the engine you would have probably seen a night/day difference, has nothing to do with the C6. The only thing the C6 doesn't have is an overdrive. My modern F-150 w/300HP V8 and 3.55LS gears won't win any contests for acceleration with 4-5K lbs on the hitch. If I towed more than once every month or so, I'd upgrade my rear-end gears to a 4.10.
 

Bronlonius

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

The only thing the C6 doesn't have is an overdrive.

Depends on what transmission the newer truck has. The 4-speed auto is similar to the old C6, having roughly 2.5:1 1st gear. The automatics with 5 or more gears typically have a much lower 1st gear, which will make a huge difference.
 

500dollar744ti

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

A tired 302 and a 3.08 rear end will do that. If you had just changed out the gears and not the engine you would have probably seen a night/day difference, has nothing to do with the C6. The only thing the C6 doesn't have is an overdrive. My modern F-150 w/300HP V8 and 3.55LS gears won't win any contests for acceleration with 4-5K lbs on the hitch. If I towed more than once every month or so, I'd upgrade my rear-end gears to a 4.10.

I did the 4.10 gears first, there was a big difference but the truck still could not hold 55mph up hills, not mountains, just standard inclines seen on highways.

What I meant with the C6 is that it's only got 3 gears, so the old 302 was either struggling in 3rd or wound all the way up and out of the power band in 2nd, having an in-between gear would have really helped.

The scenario would be, I'm towing up a highway incline, speed decreases to 45mph (with pedal floored), transmission downshifts to 2nd, then the engine gets me back up to 55mph but doesn't have enough grunt to get back into 3rd until the top of the hill. If it does get back into 3rd, it was having to downshift again because it couldn't hold speed in 3rd. With the new motor, the transmission downshifts to 2nd, briskly accelerates to 65, goes back into 3rd and maintains speed in 3rd.

The old 302 was a standard 80's low output version, it just wasn't up to the task. I ended up getting a high output 302 roller motor and rebuilding that, it was just the power increase I needed. Fuel economy went up when towing and even when not towing.
 

haulnazz15

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

Understandable, I was mainly referring to this:

With a stock 302 and 3.08 gears it was incapable of pulling 5000lbs up an incline or on the highway. The first time I tried to get up a hill, I had to stop and put it in low-range to make it, that's when I turned around and decided I needed to do something different.

The gearing would have made it much more "capable" of doing what you asked of it. However, as you mentioned, the long steep grades could get annoying when the engine is out of the power band or hunting for gears. Either way, better gearing and some extra HP never hurts, lol.
 

IGeeky1

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Re: How Times Have Changed.

To be fair thought those older station wagons and sedans often had frames and trannys that more closely resembled todays half ton pu than an suv. Fuel economy was not a big deal so weight was not as big a deal. While the hp was nothing impressive the troque was enough to tow with.
 

starcraftkid

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jul 5, 2010
Messages
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Re: How Times Have Changed.

I've towed with my 1986 F150 4.9L 4 speed manua overdrive truck since new, I've owned boats as heavy as 6200lbs down to aluminum jon boats and power has never been an issue. Sure there have been times when more power would have been nice but it got the job done. I rarely tow long distance, but on occasion have taken a vacation or two where the boat went with me.
My truck has 15" wheels and a 3.08 rear gear. Its geared a bit high in first for my liking but a little patience and it'll get rolling just fine even with heavier trailers.

The heaviest boat I had was a 23' Penn Yann with a flybridge and tunnel drive, it was a heavy boat but the truck handled it fine.
When I had to launch a bigger boat I just made sure I had some weight over the rear axle on the ramp.
The 4.9l is only something like 120hp, but it makes gobs of torque.
I tried a newer truck a few years ago and wasn't impressed enough to spend that kind of cash.
These days I no longer have any big boats so it don't work very hard but I still do have a 5000 lb camper that I tow on occasion.
It does just fine.
 

emilsr

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Messages
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Re: How Times Have Changed.

I've towed with my 1986 F150 4.9L 4 speed manua overdrive truck since new, I've owned boats as heavy as 6200lbs down to aluminum jon boats and power has never been an issue. Sure there have been times when more power would have been nice but it got the job done. I rarely tow long distance, but on occasion have taken a vacation or two where the boat went with me.
My truck has 15" wheels and a 3.08 rear gear. Its geared a bit high in first for my liking but a little patience and it'll get rolling just fine even with heavier trailers.

The heaviest boat I had was a 23' Penn Yann with a flybridge and tunnel drive, it was a heavy boat but the truck handled it fine.
When I had to launch a bigger boat I just made sure I had some weight over the rear axle on the ramp.
The 4.9l is only something like 120hp, but it makes gobs of torque.
I tried a newer truck a few years ago and wasn't impressed enough to spend that kind of cash.
These days I no longer have any big boats so it don't work very hard but I still do have a 5000 lb camper that I tow on occasion.
It does just fine.

I had an '89 F-150 with the 300 straight 6, Mazda 5-speed and 3.55 gears and, like you, was very happy with it. With the short gearing you couldn't kill it in 1st; just let out the clutch and go. Maybe the Mazda tranny had a shorter first gear than the old 4-speed. The only thing I didn't care for was the brakes (although they were cheap and easy to repair), but in every other respect it was a very competent tow vehicle. You're not likely to wear it out. ;)
 

500dollar744ti

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Messages
691
Re: How Times Have Changed.

The gearing would have made it much more "capable" of doing what you asked of it. However, as you mentioned, the long steep grades could get annoying when the engine is out of the power band or hunting for gears. Either way, better gearing and some extra HP never hurts, lol.

Oh the gearing is what made it capable of towing the load, with the 3.08 gears it wasn't happening, once I got the 4.10 set I could start towing but it was very underpowered, it made towing unpleasant, kind of like navigating a vw rabbit diesel through today's 70mph in and out traffic.

I would have to wait for such a large gap to merge that people were honking and cutting me off. One day after returning from the boat launch the oil pressure dropped significantly and I thought I heard a knock, that was the last straw, I swapped in the mustang 302 and I was back in business. I contemplated the 351 swap but already had a lead on the mustang engine so I figured why not, it turned out alright.

I did a comparison of the 300-6 vs. the 5.0HO I swapped and figured it was a safe bet.

1988 4.9 EFI vs. 1988 5.0HO

1600rpm- 251ft/lb (4.9L) vs. 260lb/ft (5.0HO)
2000rpm- 260lb/ft (4.9L) vs. 271lb/ft (5.0HO)
2400rpm- 254lb/ft (4.9L) vs. 278lb/ft (5.0HO)
2800rpm- 248lb/ft (4.9L) vs. 283lb/ft (5.0HO)
3200rpm- 232lb/ft (4.9L) vs. 300lb/ft (5.0HO)
 
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