How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

[Vlad D Impeller]

A teenage Jordanian girl who ran away from home has been battered to death by her father, who claimed she violated his family's honour, reports say. <br />The father reportedly pledged not to harm his daughter when he collected her from the authorities, who had found her in the town of Zarqa, north of Amman. <br /><br />Medical tests on the girl before she was returned to her father indicated she was still a virgin, officials say. <br /><br />Jordanian MPs have opposed stricter penalties for "honour killings." <br /><br />Under existing laws, people found guilty of murdering female relatives on the alleged grounds of guarding familial honour can be released from jail after only six months. <br /><br />In September last year, Jordanian lawmakers rejected plans to make the punishments more severe. <br /><br />'Government failure' <br /><br />The girl, who has not been named, had told police she ran away from home with her mute sister to escape an abusive father. <br /><br />She was reportedly detained by the authorities "for fear her family might kill her". <br /><br />Her mute sister is still missing. <br /><br />According to Dr Ibrahim Obeidat, an examiner at Zarqa's Prince Faisal Hospital quoted by the Associated Press news agency, medical tests on the girl showed "she was not involved in any sexual activities". <br /><br />Her father was allowed to take custody of her after he promised in writing that she would not be harmed, Dr Obeidat said. <br /><br />At least 19 women lost their lives in "honour killings" in Jordan last year. <br /><br />Many were killed by male family-members on suspicion of being involved with men. <br /><br /><br />In April, US charity Human Rights Watch accused Jordan's government of failing to protect women from such crimes.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

There is no honour in barbarism.

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Thats honour? mmmm I thought forgiveness was Honour. Maybe it is the mis use of the letter "U"!

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Guess these people didnt read the bible?<br /><br />Oh wait...Jordan...<br /><br />Ken

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Give me some time alone with the murdering child molester/abuser and I'll teach him about honor, then send him to meet his maker....lowest form of life on earth, scumbag, a-hole......should be some lifers b***h in prison...

 

[JB]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Honour is an elusive quality. Many cultures view ours as being without honour.<br /><br />According to our values what that man did is criminal and immoral to the limits of the terms, but our definition and exercise of honour and our practices are very ambiguous.<br /><br />It is the culture, not the man, that should answer for this horrible act.<br /><br />The notion that "my truth is the only truth" is not the exclusive domain of western European based civilizations.

 

[20/20]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

The sad truth is that it was not all that long ago right here in this country we were killing folks because of this so called honor. When we hurt others because they are not man, white, asian, black, etc.... no body wins, just stupidity.<br /> <br />I've allways wondered why modern humans feel such fear towards others that are not like them. Why or who started the bully facter in different society's?

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Posted by JB: "It is the culture, not the man, that should answer for this horrible act."<br />________________________________________________________<br /><br />Jordanians follow Christianity or Islam, both religions are akin to Judiasm, <br />they are obliged to adhere to the Ten Commandments and so forth, therefore it is the man who should answer for the crime.<br /><br />The jordanian Government should not condone such dastardly acts, is'nt this the 21st century?

 

[JB]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Point well taken, Vlad, but I said "culture", not "religion".<br /><br />You needn't look far to find cultural practices that defy Christanity, Judaism and Islam, right here in our own culture. . . and they are legal.

 

[KRS]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

In the US, we just make it okay for 12 year old girls to sleep around and have babies.... guess we overcame the problem eh?

 

[achris]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

These are the same 'honourable' people who think it's ok the fly planes into building, blow up trains, subways and night clubs, all in the name of religion. Their culture is based on their (twisted) interpretation of their bible, or the equivalent, and not seperate. All of the bibles I've read, or hear interpreted have all said it is a crime against God to kill. Where do these people get off thinking that it's God's orders to kill someone just because they believe in something different. And don't think Christianity gets off without a shot. The crusades in the dark ages (called dark ages for very good reason) was Christianity's worst hour. Now it seems that we must endue Islam's maturing, just now they have far deadlier tools with which to do their evil deeds.<br /><br />Only when people really start to think for themselves, and not be sheep and blindly follow zealous leaders, whichever faction, will this planet be truly ready for the next historical step. <br /><br />ok.......... Next on the soapbox.....<br /><br />Chris.............

 

[NathanY]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

These kind of posts really **** me off. When are you pacificists gonna grow a pair and condemn these people for what they are? They are animals. All of them. Plain and simple.

 

[QC]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

When I read things like this I want to ask anybody who feels animal rights are important enough to spend money and time on, where they rank treatment of children. When we are done with this type of barbarism on children then we can work on adults, when we are done with that, then we can work on animals. Not before!!!

 

[PW2]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

And Jordan are our friends!<br /><br />This makes me ill as well, but at least it is against the law what the father did, which is a start at least.<br /><br />Civilizations evolve at different rates and with different priorities.<br /><br />And before everyone gets thinking that we are so superior, let me remind you of a few facts:<br /><br />1. Less than 150 years ago, it was legal to own slaves in this country.<br /><br />2. Less than a few generations ago, women did not have the right to vote.<br /><br />3. In my lifetime, blacks finally achieved equal protection under the law.<br /><br />4. Today, in 32 states in this country, parents can do almost anything the want to their children,as long as they do it in the name of their religion. (what you can and can't do varies from state to state, with surprisingly Oregon being rated as the worst offender).<br /><br />So while Jordan, and the middle east generally, may not meet our current standard, just as we would react violently if some other country tried to impose their values on us, those countries tend to react violently when some outside force tries to impose their values on them.<br /><br />I'm not suggesting we ignore it, and we should support groups like human rights watch, and yes, even amnesty international, for bringing the world's attention to a problem, but I'm not at all sure we have the right and the moral authority to impose our values on the rest of the world.

 

[QC]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> I'm not at all sure we have the right and the moral authority to impose our values on the rest of the world.

We not only have the right, we have an obligation. Will you please get a clue!! This particular issue is not debatable. Who taught you that murdering children is something that we shoud tolerate? What supreme educational institution taught you that?<br /><br />Your ideas of moral equivalency are ridiculous. Time matters, dude.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

We not only have the right, we have an obligation.

What does this mean to you Quietcat? <br />What would you like us to do about it? How far would you go and what expense would you not spare?<br />Lay it on us man.

 

[20/20]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Originally posted by Nate Not in Arkansas:<br />These kind of posts really **** me off. When are you pacificists gonna grow a pair and condemn these people for what they are? They are animals. All of them. Plain and simple.

Yeh, lets getta rope, lets have a witch hunt. Any one that looks funny or is different lets turn back the clock and hunt them down. If you can condemn "all of these people" what makes you any different then them? What the father did was wrong but he also was taught this type of life. Yes he should pay for his crime{death} but at the same time the real problem should be looked into. thoughts like above are what kept this country from becomming free and treating everyone like a human. Time to come out of the stone age and learn and help educate people on compasion instead of hate.

 

[crab bait]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

not to be crass.. but only 16..?? that's all..??<br /><br />can you imagine the total in this country if'n honor killings were allowed/excepted..??

 

[LadyFish]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

I just read another story this morning about a 32-year-old whose feet were chopped off by her husband, her father-in-law, a brother-in-law and two others after they accused her of being "of bad character", a euphemism for promiscuous. <br /><br />The women separated from her husband but had gone to his family's house to see her daughter, police said.<br /><br />Her father-in-law chained her up and that night he and the others took her to a river bed on the edge of their village of Mohammadpur and cut off her feet.<br /><br />Two days later her parents reported her missing and police raided the house, found her and took her to hospital, where she remains.<br /><br />After an investigation the police stated "There is no evidence that she was of bad character." <br /><br />The problem is that all these crimes and cruel acts of violence are against women/girls. These cultures strongly believe in male supremecy and pay no regard to the fact that women are human beings. They probably treat their animals better than they do their women.<br /><br />Punishment for crimes comitted against women are far less (if any) of those comitted against men.<br /><br />I believe that religion plays a large role in these acts. All cultures are based on some sort of religious following. These people are taught that men are the superior being. Its not only accepted its expected. I would guess that if a man dosen't act in violence toward his wife/daughter he would be shunned.<br /><br />How can we expect to change this, when in fact there continues to be voilence against women in EVERY culture, sadly enough, even our own.

 

[NathanY]

Re: How about you trying to understand the un-civilised

Originally posted by 20/20:<br />

Originally posted by Nate Not in Arkansas:<br />These kind of posts really **** me off. When are you pacificists gonna grow a pair and condemn these people for what they are? They are animals. All of them. Plain and simple.

Yeh, lets getta rope, lets have a witch hunt. Any one that looks funny or is different lets turn back the clock and hunt them down. If you can condemn "all of these people" what makes you any different then them? What the father did was wrong but he also was taught this type of life. Yes he should pay for his crime{death} but at the same time the real problem should be looked into. thoughts like above are what kept this country from becomming free and treating everyone like a human. Time to come out of the stone age and learn and help educate people on compasion instead of hate.

Read Ladyfish's post there 20/20. Animals. I stand by my statement. The sooner rid the world of these vermin, the better off it will be.