HOT volt.regulator wires

[wnbklb]

Hi:
I have an '87 mercruiser 165 4 cyl. It has the stator (internal alt.?) and a voltage regulator mounted on the port side. While idling yesterday, I smelled and saw electrical smoke, cut the engine and noticed one of the wires coming from the stator and attaching to the voltage regulator was melting at the point it connected to the regulator. Is there any way to know what's causing this? I can't afford & don't want to start just replacing all of the part involved. I've read on this forum that there's an alt. conv. kit from Breezeworks that I may eventually consider. If my voltage regulator's shot, it's close to $500 to purchase. My question is a little complicated - so I apologize in advance. Does it sound like a bad voltage regulator or possibly something simpler like a corroded or grounded connection/bad ground? Could an improperly charging stator cause a hot wire? I've heard no sounds from the stator to indicate a loose magnet, etc. Secondly, if I go the alt. conv. kit route, does that mount where the stator is now mounted and does that involve me purchasing some kind of puller to get it off? Is it then belt driven? Also, does it eliminate the need for a voltage regulator? I don't want to be in for both the conv. kit AND a $500 volt. reg. $$$$

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I've got lots of questions, options and uncertainties that I hope some of you guys can answer. Thanks so much!!

Nelson

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Secondly, if I go the alt. conv. kit route, does that mount where the stator is now mounted and does that involve me purchasing some kind of puller to get it off? Is it then belt driven? Also, does it eliminate the need for a voltage regulator? I don't want to be in for both the conv. kit AND a $500 volt. reg. $$$$

Howdy,


Well, you have the infamous "470", 3.7L engine. Your choices are somewhat limited.


You should do a bit of a search. There's a lot of info out there. Most of the conversions use an alternator that has an integral regulator.

They're probably not going to be all that cheap. If you can fabricate your own mounting brackets, you can save yourself a little money. You can easily buy a common marine alternator on ebay and at most of the marine retailers. (including here on iBoats)


Do a google search for "Mercruiser 470 alternator"


Cheers,


Rick

 

[Rocky_Road]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Hi:
I have an '87 mercruiser 165 4 cyl. It has the stator (internal alt.?) and a voltage regulator mounted on the port side. While idling yesterday, I smelled and saw electrical smoke, cut the engine and noticed one of the wires coming from the stator and attaching to the voltage regulator was melting at the point it connected to the regulator. Is there any way to know what's causing this? I can't afford & don't want to start just replacing all of the part involved. I've read on this forum that there's an alt. conv. kit from Breezeworks that I may eventually consider. If my voltage regulator's shot, it's close to $500 to purchase. My question is a little complicated - so I apologize in advance. Does it sound like a bad voltage regulator or possibly something simpler like a corroded or grounded connection/bad ground? Could an improperly charging stator cause a hot wire? I've heard no sounds from the stator to indicate a loose magnet, etc. Secondly, if I go the alt. conv. kit route, does that mount where the stator is now mounted and does that involve me purchasing some kind of puller to get it off? Is it then belt driven? Also, does it eliminate the need for a voltage regulator? I don't want to be in for both the conv. kit AND a $500 volt. reg. $$$$

Sorry to be so long-winded, but I've got lots of questions, options and uncertainties that I hope some of you guys can answer. Thanks so much!!

Nelson

PM sent to you, Nelson!

 

[ErieRon]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Rocky Road may have sent this in his PM, but there is a very thorough diagnostic procedure to check that in service manual # 8, section 4C.

You can download it here;

http://www.4shared.com/account/file/121929231/58a54283/MercruiserManual8.html

 

[wnbklb]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

I PMed you, John. I'm seriously considering the conversion kit/new alt. as I may replace the seals in the pump while in there as has been recommended in this forum. First, I'm going to test the voltage regulator as per download ErieRon sent me (thanks, ErieRon - good info in that download!!). Maybe the hot wires are just the result of a bad connection(s) to the volt.reg.. Does anyone know what would cause the wires from the stator to the volt. reg. to get hot enough to melt the insulation? Also, if I'm fairly mechanically inclined - but not a mechanic - is the removal of the alt. rotor & stator (and volt. reg. I assume) really difficult? I noticed the service manual specifies a special puller tool and then installation tool? If the tool costs are too high, I might as well take it to a Mercruiser dealer; I'd rather not as I'd have to get it towed in the water to my trailer at the lake access and pull it somewhere. I appreciate all the input from you guys - thanks! Nelson

 

[Rocky_Road]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

I PMed you, John. I'm seriously considering the conversion kit/new alt. as I may replace the seals in the pump while in there as has been recommended in this forum. First, I'm going to test the voltage regulator as per download ErieRon sent me (thanks, ErieRon - good info in that download!!). Maybe the hot wires are just the result of a bad connection(s) to the volt.reg.. Does anyone know what would cause the wires from the stator to the volt. reg. to get hot enough to melt the insulation? Also, if I'm fairly mechanically inclined - but not a mechanic - is the removal of the alt. rotor & stator (and volt. reg. I assume) really difficult? I noticed the service manual specifies a special puller tool and then installation tool? If the tool costs are too high, I might as well take it to a Mercruiser dealer; I'd rather not as I'd have to get it towed in the water to my trailer at the lake access and pull it somewhere. I appreciate all the input from you guys - thanks! Nelson

Most kits can be used without removing the harmonic balancer...but this means that you will not have the stator removed for resale. If you don't plan on yanking the engine, you can leave your current system in it's place...tape off the ends of the two yellow (?) wires going to your regulator...leave the regulator as is...and relocate the necessary wire(s) to your new alternator. The harmonic balancer takes a standard puller to remove...most parts houses loan these out. But the engine needs to be out of the boat to do this....

Happy boating!

 

[ErieRon]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Wires that hot are usually a result of a direct short, or overload (too high of an amperage draw), or a bad connection causing arcing which could point to many different sources. That's what the diagnostic procedure should pinpoint for you.

If I remember right, you need 10" in front of the engine to utilize the tool to pull the guts out. In my case, I don't have the room, so my engine has to come out. My Merc. dealer "verbally" quoted $1,000.00-1,500 to pull the motor and replace the water seals.

I've decided to pull it myself and do everything; water seals, coupler, alternator conversion, shift cable, remote oil filter...and anything else I can think of so I won't have to do it again...

 

[wnbklb]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Thanks again, Ron!
Your issues sound familiar to mine. My manuals say I might have room to get the alt. rotor out w/o pulling the motor, but it may necessitate the removal of the front engine mount. I won't know until I can back up to the lake and measure to see if I have 10" (thanks for that number). I printed off the portion of the Merc. manual from the link you sent - that whole manual has some great pics and info! Next time up to the lake, I'm going to do those tests to determine what component has failed or if - as you mentioned - it could be a short or something. I just had wondered if a failed voltage regulator or alt. could cause hot wires. Those VR are liquid-cooled and the other thought I had was could there be a problem with the flow of water or coolant to the unit that would cause it to overheat? The entire VR was not that hot - just warm to the touch - while the wire insulation was still dripping after shutting the engine off. Again, thanks so much Ron! Nelson

 

[JustJason]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Wires that hot are usually a result of a direct short, or overload (too high of an amperage draw), or a bad connection causing arcing which could point to many different sources. That's what the diagnostic procedure should pinpoint for you.

That is very much correct. The only thing i'll add to it is if the rotor has broken magnets in it. If it does, then you have more north and south poles than the system is designed for, and the frequency of the AC output changes from the stator. To high a frequency and you'll melt wires.

The charging system in these engines is a bad design. It's an outboard style system that uses an undersized flywheel(rotor) and you have to have many RPMS to break even, let alone charge.
Your best bet is to go the alternator conversion rout for this engine. Cut and cap the wires off of the stator, and hope the alternator fits with the doghouse that you have, and call it a good day.

 

[wnbklb]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Great info, Jason! Just to satisfy my curiosity, I may test each component; but, due to the inferior stock charging system, I'll take your advice and do the conversion. One other quick question - if I do leave the stator in place and cap the wires, do I also leave the voltage regulator in place? I understand that the 2 wires will be removed, but is there anything else I need to do? Without looking at my motor, I'm not sure what other wires come off of the VR. It seems that I will be totally bypassing the VR; just leaving it on the block. If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know! Thanks so much!

 

[ErieRon]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Great info, Jason! Just to satisfy my curiosity, I may test each component; but, due to the inferior stock charging system, I'll take your advice and do the conversion. One other quick question - if I do leave the stator in place and cap the wires, do I also leave the voltage regulator in place? I understand that the 2 wires will be removed, but is there anything else I need to do? Without looking at my motor, I'm not sure what other wires come off of the VR. It seems that I will be totally bypassing the VR; just leaving it on the block. If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know! Thanks so much!

Nelson; There is a procedure for doing the seals by just lifting the front of the engine. Just depends on your configuration.

The VR is water cooled, and it can be completely removed and the inlet and outlet water lines joined. It is alleged that it improves overall flow, and hence, cooling, so plan on removing it and putting in one straight water line.

If it was a water flow problem I would think the VR would get very hot and not the wires as you have described. When mine was new there was a recall on the VR. Mine failed twice in '84 and I had to get towed. Lots of smoke, very scary, but Merc took care of it. There's a service bulletin addressing it in '83. Let me know if you want the link.

As far as removing the stator, there is another post here that Don S. chimed in on that covers that. I'll look for it and get back to you. It made a lot of sense. Stand by.

Lastly, the Alt. conversion is definitely the way to go, especially if your doing the water seals...same place, same tools...all in one.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Alright Nelson...found it. Straight from the Oracle's mouth;

"If you are going to change over to an alternator, I would suggest you pull the pulley, remove the stator, then put the pulley back on. That way, if a magnet does come loose, it can't hit the stator and cause more damage.
A standard vibration dampner puller and an installer works great for removing and installing the pulley. Usually they can be rented from some auto parts stores. The manual explains the process.
Also remove the regulator. Just to keep the wiring a bit neater.

You mentioned you downloaded the engine manual. How about the drive manual. There are things like raw water pumps, bellows, alignments, etc that is just as important as the alternator to keep working, and probably cost more to fix than the engine when they go bad".

Check this out too...you'll like it; http://www.sterndrives.com/470_coolant_leak.html

 

[wnbklb]

Re: HOT volt.regulator wires

Thank again, Ron.

That's some great info - I especially like the link you sent specifically about this engine and its inherent problems and what to watch for. I've printed those several pages and will keep them in the boat and read them every year. Just being aware of these potential issues will be a huge help. Now I'm anxious to get back up to the lake, measure, and size up how I'm going to attack this. Again, thanks Ron.