HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

accord_guy

Seaman
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
68
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

We set ourselves up when we 'leave it in <br /> the hands of professionals'. If you go to <br /> the doctor, the first thing they ask is <br /> what's wrong. If you tell them my leg <br /> hurts, they don't argue with you. Same <br /> for a service department that is told <br /> by the customer that an engine is locked up.<br /> They probably didn't take another look at <br /> it until the end. Rock came off like he knew what he was talking about. My question again, why <br /> was it not turned over to see if it was locked<br /> up before it was ever taken in?
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

It is the responsibility of a professional (or the person billing you) to make a diagnosis - that's common sense.He/she should focus on the symptoms and not the conclusions of the customer.I reckon even rodbolt would agree with me on that.<br />"My leg hurts" is a symptom. "Your femur is in two pieces" would be the problem. "My outboard won't go" would be a symptom, "your outboard is locked up", would be the problem.<br /><br />Accord_guy: If you get run over by a bus, you go right ahead and avoid "setting yourself up"...by not "leaving it to the pros", and come straight to a message forum like this for help.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

maj bach<br /> while I am quite sure you had a successful computer business would you warrenty a new hard CD drive if 2 weeks after the installation the customers kids broke the tray while playing? nope, just as Honda wont warrenty things offhand. I am not laying blame at rockhopper, after he noticed a failure he took it to an authorized repair facility where he assumed a competent tech would inspect it.<br /> as to your mistakes question, yes I make a few here and there but its rare, I try to be very careful and thourough in my diagnosis. mostly cause if I am wrong I own the part that the marina ordered.with the average v6 stator about 500 and drivers and ECM's over 12oo and even lowly high pressure pumps over 700 and O2 sensors at 370 I make sure of what I do before I do it. I have 2 bro inlaws that do the computer gig, one is very good and the VP of ferradane software's west coast division and the opther isnt worth the phone call. both stay busy.<br /> but no I dont have a big ego. I just try to insure what I do is correct but warrenty is warrenty and insurance is insurance, the two dont overlap. years back I worked at a chebby dealer, a truck under warrenty came in. engine locked up cylinders full of water and sand in the aircleaner, subsequent disscussions with the customer found he had been river dogging on the brazos and injested water down the air cleaner, chevrolet declined the warrenty and the man was all kinds of mad but it was not a warrenty issue.<br /> while its my duty to make a correct diagnosis its a customer duty to tell me the truth,whole truth and nothing but the truth. if ya forgot to add oil tell me, if ya got in the mud and toasted the motor tell me, cause I will find out what caused it at teardown. you can lie to your wife and attorney and even your preacher but a competent tech will normally find the cause of the failure.<br /> usually when we get a popped power head or a trashed gearcase we will do a careful anaylisis at teardown. looking for oil in the carbs if applicable, signs of overheat, fuel restrictions and what not. when I do call the factory with a warrenty claim it never gets denied that way.<br /> same as commercial use motors registered as pleasure. if they bring it in with net reels and pot pullers and its registered as pleasure I will notify the factory of the status of the motor and allow them to decide. keeps me from looking stupid or even worse if a factory rep suddenly shows up, which they are prone to do.<br />I work for the occasional dealer that cant get anywarrenty stuff autherized cause they have been busted a few times cheating the system. now he pays for the stuff and once the item is returned and inspected if yamaha deems it a warrentable issue they credit his parts account.<br /> I have done this work for almost 30 years. in that time I have seen about every scam you can name. I have had motors come back with coils melted into the head and told it never overheated, I have drained carbs with NO oil in them but oil in the gas tank and told it was never run out of oil and all the rod bearings are blue. stuff like that is just not warrenty.<br /> the worst are the ones that after a 2 hours session with a highlighter and the owners manual along with a sea trail they call back 2 days later with a question that was higlighted in the manual.<br /> but I do agree that the dealership involved should have done a bit more for diagnostics if the story is true.<br /> so dont bust my chops to hard :) :) I just try to find if its a warrenty claim or an insurance claim.<br /> as far as my advice you can take it or leave it but if you look it up in your service manual you will usually find I am right. :) <br />have a nice day now ya heah :)
 

accord_guy

Seaman
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
68
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

I depend on the professionals for half of <br /> the help I need. The other half is a process<br /> of elimination. It seems to me that the very<br /> moment the engine stopped, the natural reaction<br /> is to restart it. This would have eliminated <br /> the lock up diagnosis and Rock would have been<br /> on the water the next day. I just don't get<br /> it. What am I missing?
 

Rick-Mi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
34
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Originally posted by accord_guy:<br /> I depend on the professionals for half of <br /> the help I need. The other half is a process<br /> of elimination. It seems to me that the very<br /> moment the engine stopped, the natural reaction<br /> is to restart it. This would have eliminated <br /> the lock up diagnosis and Rock would have been<br /> on the water the next day. I just don't get<br /> it. What am I missing?
After owning and operating many toys over the years I have some real life experience that probably holds the answer. I believe the motor was locked up at the time Rocky threw in the towel. If you recall, he made a big deal out of the DANGEROUS conditions in which this happened. What was really said reading between the lines is that he knew full well something was wrong because the low oil pressure rev limiter kicked in, but he continued to the point of failure because he felt his life was in danger. You can bet this was a hedge from the start. However, it appears the Honda engineers saved the day once again.<br /><br />You see, there is a HUGE difference in the RPM's of the motor during a period lacking lubrication. When an engine is screaming all out at maximum RPM's and this occurs the result is usually catasprophic! Kept just off idle by the rev limiter by the time she locked up little to no damage was done. My bet is Rocky did try to start it at that point and it was siezed, in which he immediately took it to the shop. When the motor cooled and certain parts contracted it was able to turn over again. I've seen this very thing happen myself where the motor continued it's usefull life just like normal afterward.<br /><br />This is also the point where the local techs got some serious egg on their face. My gosh, it's downright embarassing. I'll bet the Honda factory people had a few choice words to say about these clowns in private on the way home. :rolleyes: <br /><br />Anyway, I do give credit to Rocky for coming clean with us about how the story ended. Kudos for that and I'm sure we are all happy his motor is back in action.....
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

would you warrenty a new hard CD drive if 2 weeks after the installation the customers kids broke the tray while playing?<br /><br />Point taken
 

accord_guy

Seaman
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
68
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Say what you will, I will never understand <br /> why no one even tried to turn the engine over. <br /> All the back and forth about who was at fault <br /> and NOBODY tried to turn it over. The <br /> engine was cool enough after the tow. <br /> Then it took 5 months for someone to try <br /> turning the key. Get real. This whole thing<br /> is just a mirocosm of the attitude in this <br /> country right now. Blame first - look into <br /> later. It's all sad.
 

Kanadakid

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
141
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

8 Ft lbs of tourque WITH A OIL FILTER TOURQUE<br />WRENCH.......give me a break. My dealer is lucky if he has an oil filter wrench period ...much less a tourgue oil wrench. I found that funny.<br /><br />Rodbolt...wish you were in New Jersey bro. I may have to drive to NC just to get you to do the service on my Yammy F90....unless you can recomend a 5 star guy up here for me.<br /><br />Never never take on the Rodman.....he's got the goods and is helpful to all of us.<br /><br />Rod...truthfully, do you have an oil filter torque wrench ? Ever seen one ?<br /><br /><br />Kid
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

truthfully no.<br /> but I do won several cup type filter tools with a 3/8ths or 1/2 square drive that I could use a torque wrench on. maybe it will bite me someday but I still use the one full turn after the gasket makes contact and prelube the seal with oil.<br /> its like when I asked an instructor at suzuki school about how to retourqe all the exhaust covers at the initial and subsequent service intravals. he looked at me and said come on we are only talking about 5ftlbs.<br /> biggest asset I find is common sense. its right up with a service manual that actually gets read.<br /> yopu may not believe it but I have more service manuals in my living room than some shops I work at own.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Allot of spec's, on many outbaords are in, #/in. (inch pounds).<br /><br />When I mention that type of measurement to many, I get blank stares. Very few tech's own an inch pound torque wrench.<br /><br />Of course we can go by the old tried and true rule. "Tighten it until it breaks and then back off 1/4 turn". ;)
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

yep that extra 1/4 turn and the dreaded "TINK". I have 2 click type inch pounds and a dial type. cant set up gears without the dial type. if ya want a sinus clearing price a 0-150 inch pound dial torque wrench.<br />mine was 159
 
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