HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

[rock bottom]

This is a hard email ...If you read the thread..I took my boat originally to a Honda Factory authorized service center who now we have found out completely, completely misdiagnosed my motor. The Honda rep graciously flew out in order to assess and inspect the motor. We met at Voyager Marine and they within one hour determined there was nothing wrong with the motor at all added oil and fired it right up...he feels that the temp sensor shut the motor down. We cannot explain the oil loss. The o- ring may have mis seated ..its the same color as the filter and hard to see. Despite me tightening it very tight and thus noted on the repair order ..he says it has to be at 8 ft lbs with a filter torque wrench..im a little skeptical due to my experience but I am not ruling this out. We both feel that the oil loss issue is a completely moot point to conjecture with out the original filter as evidence. The bottomline here is that i only had to go on from what i was told from the first service center and didnt want to tamper with it due to , again, the info provided and it was a warranty claim. THE MOTOR IS IN PERFECT SHAPE AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT and I just lost five quality months of fishing and have had endless high blood pressure over this. I would sincerely like to thank Travis at Honda Marine for inspecting this motor untangling this birdsnest and getting me back on the water!

 

[peterc38]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Hallaluah! Congratulations on the good news. Missing 5 months of fishing had to be tough for sure. To be honest, I'm glad its over, cause that thread was gettin' to be longer than "War and Peace"

 

[MajBach]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Wow! It fired right up? Amazing that you over-looked this. Well, look at the bright side, at least it's over-your blood-pressure will return to normal instead of increasing until court date.

 

[mjbrueck]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

If it helps you sleep better at night, I lost oil in my outboard about a year ago. It's been running fine ever since. It was under different circumstances and I shut it down myself, but I still thought I had a $2000 anchor.

 

[andymach23]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Rock.<br /><br />I was gripped by this thread. It really spooked me about doing my next oil change as my motor is still in warranty.<br /><br />2 things are clear from this.<br /><br />So called factory authorized dealers can be full of it.<br /><br />Rodbolt is right on the money, as usual!<br /><br />Glad it worked out for you and don't forget to cancel the court date.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

glad ya finally found someone that knows something.<br /> dude I have seen dealers call yamaha about problems and not even have the boat on the lot. I work with techs daily that are scared of wires and multimeters and mysterious black boxes and would rather swap them than test them.<br /> sorry ya lost 5 months fishing, maybe in your apology letter to Honda you can explain the technical difficulties your other dealer suffers.<br />remember it does not take much to be anyones dealer, all ya gotta do is have the cash or the credit to get the franchise. it does however take good techs to fix the dang thangs

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Rodbolt, <br /><br />Does it scare you that all of these kids coming out of these 9 month long, outboard service schools can't read a ohm meter and don't know how to clean a carburetor? What ever happened to the naturally gifted mechanic who could time an engine by ear? It's no wonder people are afraid of getting ripped off.

 

[Hawaiian]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

It is great you got it resolved, too bad you lost 5 months of boating.

 

[Rick-Mi]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Rock Bottom,<br />Glad the story had a good ending. I can't believe the local techs didn't figure that out. Too bad it took such an ordeal, but the end result was great. Happy boating.....

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Imternet<br /> yep it does<br /> to many only know what the instructor,which normally has zero field experience, teaches.<br /> none read service manuals and ask themselves questions. some make the same mistakes over and oiver and will do so for 20 years.<br /> its amazing what some techs either miss, dont know or dont care about.<br /> when the HPDI first came out there were some TPS issues. I was having a problem and yamaha faxed the marinia owner a new procedure. I read it,handed it back and told him if I get those voltage readings its broke. spent the next 2 hours on the phone with yam explaining why their "new" procedure would not work. later they sent one that would . I would say 90% or ALL outboard school instructors and 80% of all field techs I see have no practicle field experience.<br /> my complaint is what happened to the ability to read and comprehend what was read. to many techs work on systems,even carbs, that dont have a clue how one part works with another. I posted a book that any and all techs should have read, motors chassis and electrical, my bet is no one here ever bothered with it.

 

[accord_guy]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Rock, <br /><br /> You owe Honda and all it's loyal customers<br /> a huge apology. Why in the world would this<br /> have not been tried in the begining? I thought<br /> the motor was locked up. I don't care about<br /> warranty. If it turned over, it wasn't locked <br /> up from oil loss. Learn from this. Don't jump<br /> to conclusions and don't always be so sure of <br /> yourself. Now everyone is blaming an <br /> inexperienced tech. Unbelievable.

 

[ziemann]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

I am glad that I am not the only one that for whatever reason is a bit irritated by all of this. The rant and raving "Honda Sucks" etc.... It was just so extreme... I cannot pin down exactly why I find all of this irritating.<br /><br />Honda stuck to their guns and did not cave in for a reason. <br /><br />I am happy to hear that you are back on the water and that everything is ok.

 

[MajBach]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

I think some of you are being a little too harsh. While I am sure I could re-read all of the posts by rockbottom and find a few excerpts that bashed Honda, I really cant blame him. EVEN if a court found him responsible for whatever reason - ethically or legally - I know if I was in his shoes, I'd have done/felt the same.<br />First you come down on him for doing his own maintenance himself and improperly then for running the o/b w/out oil - which we don't know for certain even happened (during and in hindsight)-under conditions we do not know the circumstances to first-hand and therefore really cannot state he was complacent or negligent. He then has an 'expert' (certainly one approved and acknowledged by Honda) tell him that it wasn't his fault nor should it have happened. Then, he's left to hang out and dry by Honda.<br />Honda advertises how easy it is to do the maitenance on these motors-yourself. I do 90% of all the work on my o/b and car and by no means am an expert. I certainly do not feel that I could make the mistake of improperly tightening an oil filter and if an expert told me i did it right and there was a defect elsewhere, I'd be inclined to believe him.<br />This thread is now taking the turn that the large majority of mechanics are incompetent. By the way it has been implied above, they know little more than the average Joe can get from a shop manual. So I ask you, when you consider that the ease of self-maitenance is a selling point for these motors and that the average mechanic is useless, what's Joe Outboardowner supposed to do? Honda should have gripped onto this one from the beginning and flown a rep out then - not after being legally challenged - if they did not believe the conclusions of a marina that sells their motors.<br />Regardless of who is legally or ethically at fault, a customer was left without a motor for 5 months and Honda did nothing to adequate rectify this after being told that the owner wasn't at fault by an 'expert'. I would be bashing Honda too! Some you you sound like you think you're better than everyone else and infallible.

 

[Rick-Mi]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

Originally posted by accord_guy:<br /> Rock, <br /><br /> You owe Honda and all it's loyal customers<br /> a huge apology. Why in the world would this<br /> have not been tried in the begining? I thought<br /> the motor was locked up. I don't care about<br /> warranty. If it turned over, it wasn't locked <br /> up from oil loss. Learn from this. Don't jump<br /> to conclusions and don't always be so sure of <br /> yourself. Now everyone is blaming an <br /> inexperienced tech. Unbelievable.

Accord_Guy,<br />I think everyone is glad that Rock's motor is OK and is taking it easy on him. It's convinient to blame the nameless rookie mechanic. After all, Rock rightfully took a lot of s*** for his part in the original thread. It just goes to show if you are going to be a whiney beach trying to point the finger of blame don't try to come off as an expert. Everyone who read the original thread knew Rock didn't know jack based on a number of things he did and didn't do. Now it turns out the "racing mechanic" who botched the original service doesn't know the difference between low oil shutdown and being siezed up. The unbelievable part is neither did the "professional" techs! My gosh, the Honda factory people's heads must be spinning!!! Still, it came out good in the end and I'm happy for him. People who spend the extra money for a Honda are doing so for an obvious reason. Most of us can feel the pain of someone facing the prospect of owning a very expensive boat anchor after only 20 hours of use.<br /><br />MajBach,<br />I don't think Honda did anything wrong and am glad they stuck to their guns. Most of the people following the original thread felt is wasn't Honda's fault and sure enough, it wasn't! It just demonstrates that no matter how bulletproof you engineer an outboard motor, you can't "idiot-proof" them.....

 

[MajBach]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

I didnt state it was Honda's fault. Who's fault was it? Even Honda couldn't explain the oil loss. Is this one of those cases where it wasn't anyone's fault? That being, Honda, with the money, resources, experience, reputation and thorough knowledge of their product should have acknowledged that this customer was between a rock and a hard place, i.e. having a professional mechanic and Honda dealer state to him he did nothing wrong and that maintenance was performed 'to spec' and that it was a 'factory defect', should have done something to clarify the problem sooner.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

It's not just that today's mechanics have dumbed down. They have, but the technology has become a lot more sophisticated as well....And as we can all see...consumers can fly off the handle without cause. I will say this, Rock Bottom showed some real character by posting the conclusion to his problem. A lot of people would have just left the issue and never posted the result. Also, it's just not practical for factory personnel to make a trip to examine every problem that a consumer has. Dealers that are authorized to perform warranty service are expected to be able to diagnose and repair without calling a manufacturer...in theory. Reality is that dealers call for technical help all the time due to those pesky technological "inovations." But, for the most part, most 11th grade auto shop students could tell you if an engine was locked up. In this case a mechanic probably gave lip service to Rock Bottom and actually spent a minute with the engine. Since the tech assumed he would find a locked up engine...That's what he found. It would be very unlikely that the tech would have called an owner and said the engine was locked up if it came in for a waterpump or for a "tune up." All too often we find what we expect to find. Even if it is not really there.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

We were only told one side of the story.<br />And we continue to be told one side. And as a result there is plenty that doesn't add up in the resolution thread.<br /><br />As told, there was more than one inexperienced person working on that motor.<br />What surprises me the most is with a neighborhood full of mechanics, an owner that triple checks his mechanical actions, two dealerships, an independent marine tech or two, that it took 5 months to be resolved.<br /><br />It seemed Honda stayed away until everyone was done playing games.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

as Honda should have.<br /> not knocking backyard shade trees but I see mistakes and poor work from them on a daily basis, most own no tools other than a cresent hammer and a swing press, half cannot read and half that can have no comprehension of what they read. not to mention working behind so called factory trained techs.as far as statements like Majbach its laughable.<br /> the filter sealed for 20 hours,the claim was within minutes after changing the original one there was an oil leak. either it was a defective filter,happens rare but happens, or it was improper installation, common. I have seen techs forget to drain oil,forget to install the drain plug even forget to install the filter before starting. mistakes happen. Honda makes a very good product as do most. what they cannot engineer around is a losse nut behind the helm or low operator pressure. if I had a ben franklin for every automatic shutoff story I have heard I would retire to Venezuela today. NO outboard makes an auto shut down. usually the "auto" shut down occurs when its broke, usually due to operator neglect. its rare that a well maintained rig has a problem. I do this for a living and pretty much have since I was about 15. got my first chiltons manual when I was 8 and still have it. when my buddies were mowing grass and pitching papers I was fixing their mowers and bikes. I made more than they did and sweated less ) .still do mostly . I consider myself a professional, if you want it cheap or patched I will happily load the pieces in your truck after I am paid what I am owed and the next guy can fix it. If I repair it I warrenty it. my outboard rebuilds are not cheap but they come with a one year warrenty. but all this was no fault of Honda. some of the blame can go to rockhopper the rest I will lay squarely on the servicing dealer. to many places today seem to think its all about the money. it aint. its about knowing your job and doing it well and doing it better each day.<br /> Honda was not responsible to explain the oil loss as they did not lose it. in no way do I see any Honda responsibility from the posts. none.<br /> I have done the outboard gig over 20 years. in that time I can tell junk/poorly maintained motors by the way the man talks. I edecline to work on them and all are happy. if you come in telling me the water pump lasted 10 years and "suddenly" failed ill send ya down the street and all are happy, except the guy down the street .

 

[accord_guy]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

I think what amazes me the most about this <br /> whole thing is that Rock obviously didn't even<br /> try to restart the engine after shutdown. <br /> It would have turned over but not started.<br /> Not locked up. Simple as that. All we've <br /> become is a bunch of finger-pointers.

 

[MajBach]

Re: HONDA NIGHTMARE RESOLUTION!

rodbolt: If I could somehow squeeze a message through that giant ego that surrounds you...<br /><br />I used to own a business [too]; it was in computer servicing. I can assure that in this field, consumer 'mistakes' and improper use far outweigh hardware failure and diagnosing a problem is 99% of the repair. The number of times I received calls stating "what did you do", "I have a virus" or "my hard drive is broken", when all it turned out to be was low batteries in a wireless mouse leads one to believe the I.Q. of the average population is somewhere below sea-level. But I always followed up - it's good business even when it's not profitable.<br /><br />You're frequent to point out how common mistakes are made by just about everyone but yourself. Do you ever make the wrong call?<br /><br />My point was (you should always try and have a point when posting a message)this guy either <br />a) made a mistake - something you point out as not unusual<br />OR<br />b) had an unusual mechanical failure<br /><br />At that point, he left it in the hands of professionals, dealers and manufacturers and did nothing further on his own - at least by his claim. One of these parties should have been able to properly diagnose the problem earlier before making him jump hrough hoops. The claims he made on this board were not his, but that of a professional and he countered all of them by the defending party which made opposite claims. Yet, the majority of responses here pointed the finger at rockbottom. And I agree, it goes to his character that he concluded his posts by stating he was wrong. As I originally said, I thought he was treated a little harshly.<br /><br />As enlightened as you frequently sound and as often as I am inclined to believe what you write, your posts are still no more than text on a screen originating from I-dont-know-where. In reality, because I have nothing further to judge you on, they carry less weight than the advice from the mechanic down the road whose paycheck has the big red H watermarked on it.