herbs vs drugs

OLDSPUD

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I once had a wife that swore that the AMA and medical professionals were in a conspiracy with the drug manufacturers to make $$.<br /><br />Among other things, she only used herbs for treatment.<br /><br />I have often wondered is their any truth on either side.<br /><br />What do you guys think?<br /><br />Yes it is the middle of the night and can't sleep.<br /><br />Spud
 

Nos4r2

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Dec 12, 2004
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Re: herbs vs drugs

I think she was probably a conspiracy theorist and will probably end up killing someone with ideas like that. (sorry, but it's my opinion...)
 

Wimperdink

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Re: herbs vs drugs

I agree with her... people in the ancient worlds and times never had "drugs" to heal. They used herbal concoctions and rituals to heal. The ancient chinese were some of the healthiest people and lived to old ages and all without drugs as we know them. Herbs rarely have side effects. Read any disclaimer on todays medicines.
 

KaGee

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Aug 14, 2004
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Re: herbs vs drugs

I believe that the "Herb" companies are also interested in the $$ and have eagerly contributed to the "conspiracy."<br /><br />It's all about the money.
 

mrbscott19

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Re: herbs vs drugs

I read an article a while back about how Drug companies give doctors huge kickbacks for prescribing their drugs. Things like free dinners, golf vacations and the like. They also get cash on occasion. The more the drug gets prescribed, the better the kickbacks. It's not illegal either. If you do a google search for drug company kickbacks you'll see some proof that yes, drug companies and doctors are in bed together.<br /><br />I might also add that the Bush Admin appears to be trying to crack down on this kind of practice. For this, I applaud them.
 

mrbscott19

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Re: herbs vs drugs

God made pot.......man made beer.......who do you trust?
 

crab bait

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Re: herbs vs drugs

i'm a ole shamin/witch doctor from way back..<br />herbal study is a hobby of mine..<br /><br />most drugs derive from plants at first..<br /><br />if'n your one lipitor.. better off takin' red yeast rice.. that's exactly what lipitor is derived from.. plus it's way cheaper an safer..<br /><br />have a headache..?? suck on a willow twig..<br />it's exactly what bayer asprin is made of..<br /><br />have anxioty (panic)..?? going to speak in public..?? big job interview..?? manipause..?? walk around the city/mall all day..?? have more fun around people..??<br /><br />take kava kava.. better & safer than prozac .. an keeps mind sharp an not tired.. but cuts away fatigue..<br /><br />many many more.. <br /><br />but remember.. all because it's a plant,, doesn't make it safe.. but if'n it's FDA approved,, BET YOUR *** IT'S NOT SAFE..
 

theriver

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Dec 13, 2004
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Re: herbs vs drugs

Meds are usually natually derived. Its the science that fine tunes the effectiveness. Life expectancy rates keep climbing decade and century over century. There's a reason for that.
 

OLDSPUD

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Nov 13, 2004
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Re: herbs vs drugs

theriver, are you sure, 'cause I tend to agree with you.<br /><br />Dang could it be so. Me & theriver, by the way where are you from.<br />spud
 

Ross J

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Nov 30, 2001
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Re: herbs vs drugs

Whoever produces the end product either drug or herb is in it for the profit. My experience is that everybody makes the right noises about their choice being the right one but in the end there's a cost whichever way you go. Somebodys making their buisiness from it!<br />Ross
 

ZmOz

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Re: herbs vs drugs

Any herb that cures a sickness or has an otherwise intoxicating effect on your body is, by definition, a drug. Marijuana is a drug the same way Excedrin is a drug. Just because something is a drug doesn't make it bad though. ;)
 

lakelivin

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Re: herbs vs drugs

I worked in the pharmaceutical industry for almost 15 years. Some thoughts/ observations:<br /><br />Those of you who talk about it being about the money are correct, but perhaps for the wrong reasons.<br /><br />Drugs are regulated by the FDA and require significant and expensive testing to prove they are safe and effective before they are approved. About a decade ago, the FDA was entirely funded by the government. In order to expedite the lengthy FDA review process, it was decided that the Pharma's could contribute funding for additional FDA resource to expedite the review process for their drug. Although I'd hesitate to speculate on the actual effect of this, it does at least raise the prospect of the possibility of a compromise between the independent relationship between the Pharmas and the FDA.<br /><br />I read an article a while back about how Drug companies give doctors huge kickbacks for prescribing their drugs. Things like free dinners, golf vacations and the like. They also get cash on occasion. The more the drug gets prescribed, the better the kickbacks. It's not illegal either. If you do a google search for drug company kickbacks you'll see some proof that yes, drug companies and doctors are in bed together.<br /><br />The above is actually illegal. It used to be that Pharmas WOULD provide Drs. with expensive gifts, dinners, and host seminars with all expenses paid in exotic locations (vacations). Although done with the stated purpose of 'educating' the Drs. about a new drug, I think it's safe to say the real purpose was to create a relationship that would subconsciously encourage the Drs. to prescribe their medication. The practice was outlawed years ago, with strict limits placed the $ amount of benefits the Pharma reps could provide the MDs. <br /><br />I'm almost positive that actual kickbacks for prescribing drugs is and was illegal, although like any other industry, it may have (or may still occasionally) occur. What mrbscott might be referring to is rebates based on the amount purchased to institutions like HMOs or Insurance companies that actually buy drugs, not to the MDs who prescribe them. Of course, the HMO or Insurance co can influence the MDs or patient w.r.t. what particular drug will be prescribed based on the amount they will reimburse for one vs. another.<br /><br />Another thing that mrbscot might be referring to relates to the way drugs are tested in the approval process. Pharmas 'hire' MDs to participate in 'studies' which test the new drug against a placebo, an approved competitor, or both. The MDs often are allowd to use the results they observe in these studies to publish in medical Journals; publication often equates with prestige in the Medical field. As such, the MDs may subconsciously be 'pulling' for the new drug to work so they can publish the results. Proper study design eliminates the potential for any such bias to influence the results. The MDs participating in Pharma trials are usually paid by the number of patients they enroll, but this does not carry over to reimbursement for prescribing the drug once the study is over and the drug is approved. <br /><br />Herbs, vitamines, and things like amino acids (lets call them 'neutraceuticals') are rarely tested because there is little incentive for a company to spend the vast amounts necessary to conduct the necessary trials the FDA would require to approve it for a particular indication. Drugs are patented and the developing company has exclusive rights to market them for a set period of time. Thats why they are so expensive until the patent runs out and generics can be marketed. You can't patent herbs, so even if you got them approved for an indication, anybody could market it, even though you spent all of the money on the studies.<br /><br />Personally, I have no doubt that some 'neutraceuticals' work as well as some of the drugs approved for certain indications (ginger for motion sickness and various other forms of nausea, for example). I also have little doubt that there are many sold by hucksters that provide nothing except perhaps a placebo (sugar pill) effect ('male enhancement' compounds, diet pills, etc.).<br /><br />One other thing to keep in mind is that just because something is natural, that doesn't mean that it can't be unsafe if taken in too high an amount or in combination with other compounds. And since noone is testing them for safety, there no way for the general public to know how much is too much.<br /><br />I believe the Pharma industry is guilty of overpricing at times and occasionally either suppressing safety infomation or releasing it in a tardy fashion, but in general you can be fairly certain that an FDA aproved drug has undergone pretty thorough testing and review. Keep in mind that people react differently and that NOTHING is completely safe for everyone (most of us would be surprised at the proportion or people who could die from an allergic reaction to peanuts). <br /><br />Kind of a rough summary of some of the issues, but hopefully some might find it helpfull.
 
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Re: herbs vs drugs

I worked for a doctor and the drug rep would bring lunch and give him tickets. Plus they get a kick back if they have thier patients use it. So he would write them out even if there was a cheaper drug.
 

deputydawg

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Re: herbs vs drugs

Drugs are broken down into 2 categories on the basics. You have the natural and the synthetic.<br /><br />Marijuana is a drug, but it is derived from a plant. THC is the drug that people are after.<br /><br />Cocaine is also a drug, do we call it a herb? It is a derivative of a plant also. <br /><br />Heroin is a drug from a plant.<br /><br />The synthetic drugs are like XCT, MDMA, and others. These are more dangerous because they are made mostly in european countries and the middle east. Not regulated, so who knows what is in them. Have found them with heroin, cocain, even acids and other junk.<br /><br />The medical profession prescribes drugs both synthetic and natural. People use the herbal thinking in illegal drugs because they want to justify their actions to society. The synthetic prescription drugs are highly regulated.<br /><br />There are cures for a lot of diseases out there that are not on the market yet because of studies that need to be done to make sure they are not bad for us or whatever. This has to be done to satisfy laws, and more than that to protect the pharmecutical companies from lawsuits. <br /><br />The drug companies don't really give kickbacks to doctors to prescribe their drug, but they do give advertising incentives. Like a seed dealer does for a farmer, or a machine salesman does for large companies and governments. It is the american way, treat your customer better than the competition does and they might be drawn to your product.<br /><br />I feel that if a person lives a healthy lifestyle, the natural cures will work for a lot of minor ailments. Even a few major illnesses like heart disease can be eased by natural remadies. Like was said, look back in the days of old all they had was natural cures. BUT look at the life expectancy. These people may have been healthier, but the average life expectancy was around 30 to 35. The sick ones all died, so they of course were all healthier.
 

Andrew Leigh

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Jun 17, 2003
Messages
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Re: herbs vs drugs

Originally posted by One More Cast:<br /> so what is marijuana, a drug or a herb?
When we were kids we would take marijuana pips and mix them with cookie dough and make cookies. This said I can only conclude that marijuana is a herb. :D
 

gonefishie

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Jul 28, 2004
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Re: herbs vs drugs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />God made pot.......man made beer.......who do you trust?<br /><br />--------------------<br /><br />Definetely God! When was the last time you heard that a pothead caused a major wreck on the road? If there are mishaps they was going so slow that no harm is done anyway. :D
 

theriver

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Dec 13, 2004
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393
Re: herbs vs drugs

When was the last time you smoked pot and felt like doin anything but laugh? Driving is the last thing on your mind. The couch feels juuuuust fine thanks.
 

jtexas

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Oct 13, 2003
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Re: herbs vs drugs

Pharmaceutical companies might not give kickbacks, but they do sponsor "continuing education" seminars in places like Acapulco and Vail and Pebble Beach, and whoever meets certain 'script-writing "goals" gets "complimentary" accomodations and/or other "incentives." The CE part consists of a presentation during breakfast. I learned this when I worked for a public accounting firm specializing in medical practices.<br /><br />Less a "conspiracy" than a "symbiotic relationship" so to speak. But pharmaceutical reps are an important source of information for new drugs.<br /><br />You could probably go a long time using herbs or homeopathic treatments for your ailments, depending on what you come down with.
 
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