head gasket?

[fisheymikey]

hi
I have a 125 force 1988

I have 141 on all 4 cylinders

I #4 cylinder spark plug is always much cleaner than all others.

question #1: can there be a water leak even if I have good compression
#2: can that cause a loss of power?
#3: can it cause damage already?
#4: I live in quebec -15c outside does that effect the removing process?
# most importantly the schematics is not the same on the internet... the power head for my make indicated looks like a rectangular shape mine is more like a figure 8... does that mean the gasket is not the same? don't want to order the part and not have the right gasket..



thanks

 

[Boatdoc58]

Re: head gasket?

Serial # of the engine would help but I only stock one gasket for them.

 

[fisheymikey]

Re: head gasket?

1251x8c

 

[Jiggz]

Re: head gasket?

Yes, water intrusion from the exhaust plate can still come in even with good compression. With good compression, it means the head gasket is in good shape or intact which means it could also be reused assuming it does not get torn.

Depending on the severity of the leak, it can cause loss of power and damage the cylinder. The biggest problem with water intrusion is it reduces lubrication between the cylinder and the piston rings caused by steam during combustion. A sign of rusting in the cylinder or piston crown would indicate serious water leakage.

The best thing to do now is to open and inspect the head and take it from there.

 

[fisheymikey]

Re: head gasket?

Yes, water intrusion from the exhaust plate can still come in even with good compression. With good compression, it means the head gasket is in good shape or intact which means it could also be reused assuming it does not get torn.

Depending on the severity of the leak, it can cause loss of power and damage the cylinder. The biggest problem with water intrusion is it reduces lubrication between the cylinder and the piston rings caused by steam during combustion. A sign of rusting in the cylinder or piston crown would indicate serious water leakage.

The best thing to do now is to open and inspect the head and take it from there.

well that was easy!!!

but now the tough stuff(for me) here are some pics I would love you fead back!

#4 cylinder like I said is very clean compar to the other cylinders... why would that be

please any help would be very appreciated

thanks

mike

 

[gregmsr]

Re: head gasket?

Like Jiggz said, the exhaust plate gasket may be leaking water into the cylinder if the head gasket was not bad.
Pull the exhaust plate off and take a look. Plenty of threads here showing you how.
I had the same problem but turns out I had a cracked block. (I hope you dont have the same problem)
The attached pictures show the plate when removed and the obvious cylinder problem shining up the cylinder head at #4.

Good luck!

 

[Big Fish Billy]

Re: head gasket?

The reason the cylinder, heads, spark plugs, and piston tops are cleaner is because the water being less compress-able and less combustible, in fact explodes the carbon off of the parts thus cleaning them. The same is found in V-8 automotive engines when head gasket leaks occur. In fact many old time race enthusiasts actually set up injection systems to introduce small amounts of moisture to keep things clean and improve compression ratios. SeaFoam and some of the other decarboning additives which accomplish the same thing are just actually only a little more explosive than water for our operating pleasure.

 

[fisheymikey]

Re: head gasket?

Thats not going to be fun at all..can a cracked block still have good compretion?

Do I need torrmove the whole transmission and king pin?

 

[Boatdoc58]

Re: head gasket?

I had a similar issue with mine and it turned out the fuel pump valve, a little round disc in the fuel pump had gone bad and fuel pump was allowing fuel to pour straight down the pulse line because the valve wasn't working/broke. It washed #4 cylinder clean. I scratched my head over it for days and then pulled the pulse line off #4 transfer port and fuel poured out !! A simple pump rebuild solved it. I pulled the head to check the cylinder condition and it looked good.....145 psi on all cylinders !! The part # is F177330, you will need 3.
Luckily, because our shop specializes in Force motors I had them in stock, and the fuel pump rebuild kit, and the head gasket.

 

[Boatdoc58]

Re: head gasket?

I had a similar issue with mine and it turned out the fuel pump valve, a little round disc in the fuel pump had gone bad and fuel pump was allowing fuel to pour straight down the pulse line because the valve wasn't working/broke. It washed #4 cylinder clean. I scratched my head over it for days and then pulled the pulse line off #4 transfer port and fuel poured out !! A simple pump rebuild solved it. I pulled the head to check the cylinder condition and it looked good.....145 psi on all cylinders !!

Sorry...tried to edit it and then I couldn't delete this one........

 

[fisheymikey]

Re: head gasket?

I had a similar issue with mine and it turned out the fuel pump valve, a little round disc in the fuel pump had gone bad and fuel pump was allowing fuel to pour straight down the pulse line because the valve wasn't working/broke. It washed #4 cylinder clean. I scratched my head over it for days and then pulled the pulse line off #4 transfer port and fuel poured out !! A simple pump rebuild solved it. I pulled the head to check the cylinder condition and it looked good.....145 psi on all cylinders !!

Sorry...tried to edit it and then I couldn't delete this one........

were is the pulse line?

 

[Big Fish Billy]

Re: head gasket?

I had a similar issue with mine and it turned out the fuel pump valve, a little round disc in the fuel pump had gone bad and fuel pump was allowing fuel to pour straight down the pulse line because the valve wasn't working/broke. It washed #4 cylinder clean. I scratched my head over it for days and then pulled the pulse line off #4 transfer port and fuel poured out !! A simple pump rebuild solved it. I pulled the head to check the cylinder condition and it looked good.....145 psi on all cylinders !!

Sorry...tried to edit it and then I couldn't delete this one........

Sometimes you need to hear advice a couple times for it to sink in.........

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: head gasket?

Well, I am sorry but I don't see the #4 cylinder being cleaner than the rest. From your last photo, I see that 2, 3, and 4 combustion chambers are clean while #1 has normal deposits. So, before going crazy, as mentioned above, check the fuel pump. ALSO, very importantly, check the carb low speed needles to see if they are rich enough. They should be somewhere around 1 to 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated.

 

[fisheymikey]

Re: head gasket?

the #1 cylinder always fowls more. my spark plug #1 is always dirtier than the others.... that could be normal?

I absolutely don't want to go crazy just want to know if the exhaust plate gasket is a common issue.

thx

 

[fisheymikey]

Re: head gasket?

here are some bolts when I removed the head...

the top rusted bolts were located on the right side only close to cylinder #3

is it normal or did I have water intrusion?

 

[Big Fish Billy]

Re: head gasket?

The trouble I think we all run into is that when we buy these motors used, we never know how much and how long they were run with no cooling water hooked up. On my 40 the guy thought nothing of running it for me with no water. When I got it home all the gaskets on the exhaust side and adapter plate were toasted and leaking. I don't think my head gasket is, but wouldn't be surprised down the line to find out it is. Water is certainly making it to those rusted bolts, I'm sure in part due to the very light torques, so I wouldn't be hard pressed to think it is making it another 1/4 inch to the cylinders, while it's apart it's worth doing them all....Summer will come soon....

Bill

 

[Jiggz]

Re: head gasket?

Since removing the exhaust plate is a real pain in the rear, I would put that on the bottom of my suspected list. Do a close inspection of the head gasket and if it is solidly intact, clean the mating surfaces, re-install, re-torque properly in right sequence in at least two stage torque manner. If gasket is not solidly intact, replace it.

Do another compression test and if all are within 10% of each other run the engine for while but make sure you do not idle it for long instead give it some good running for about an hour. Before doing so, check the fuel-air mix screw and have them set at 1~1 1/4 turn out from lightly seated. After one good hour of running, re-check plug and re post results. Take pics of all plugs too for comparison.

 

[gregmsr]

Re: head gasket?

Take another look at the picture I posted before. It shows the result of water directly getting into ONE cylinder. That thing was clean as a pin.
I don't believe I have ever seen anywhere where water from a bad head gasket or exhaust plate for that matter effected three cylinders. (but i'm no expert here).
One tell tale sign of water into cylinders is water droplets on the spark plug(s) after running it.