Gimbal bearing question

[dn010]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I agree with you; but I think folks on here are more likely to talk you out of something because they've seen someone take a shortcut without ingenuity and ended up failing terribly; or not follow the book and ruin something. We don't know each other so therefore we don't know each others capabilities when working on our stuff. Some folks need a little reference or guidance to fix something and others need a specialist standing over them at all times - and not knowing which kind of person you're dealing with sparks some of the responses you get.

Either which way - I appreciate everyone's posts here and the time they took to post it, whatever it may say!

mr88 let me be the first to agree with you and congratulate you on saying something that needed saying. EXACTLY. We are repeatedly chastised on this forum for not following the book etc on repair procedures. The fact is that there are many out there who have dared to try something a bit different than what the book says and have found success. They should be welcomed for their innovation, not denigrated.After all the book was written first, and probably never updated,wheras free thinking individuals will no matter what the endeavour continue to find better ways.The comparison to car recommended intervals was right on.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I too have replaced that bearing this way with no problems. HOWEVER Those of you for the most part who are asking the questions are asking for advise on how to repair your boat. While if you screw something up it is on you and your problem. We as marine service personnel are trained how to do the tasks we do. I will agree that a lot of it is CYA, but if I put something in "other than specified by the mfg." and things happen involving the parts or related assemblies it will come back on me with the proof being that it was not installed per the book. So it is in this vein we tend to pass on the correct and proper procedures to those who seek our advise.

 

[GLENN M]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

i traded in my career as a chev mechanic 9yrs ago,became a millwright other than building high performance cars millwrighting is something i love to do.that said i deal with bearings all sizes super bearing worth 100 grand,and all sizes down.kaman bearing will cross match merc #d bearing[kms]to kms #d bearing identical 1\3 the price.i ordered some bearings went to pick up no races i say what the f k,he says there extra and most custmers dont want to pay for them so i didnt order them.i say icant put new bearings on old races there useless.this guys like oh my god first guy thats willing spend a couple extra to do it right.the facts are you dont reuse old races ever,ok you got away with it good for you.its still wrong and the worst possible advice,no idiots wrote those manuals,engineers did.if these taking time out of there lives mechanics on this fourm were handing out bad advice or mickey mouse fixit crap people would literaly be dying as boating is no place to cut corners.if you want to take your life in your hands no one can stop you.but please keep your bad advice to yourself.

 

[GLENN M]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

oh and yes bearing and races are not all the exact same size,thats why you have more than one size shim.if you read manual you will see how to properly install and measure.races wear with bearing.you check race with scope there pited,tapered,and concave.according to kms the life of a bearing is determined by instalation.to tight to loose contamination,;ie dirt,dust,whatever instalation kills bearings.useing old race.might as well through it in the dirt!

 

[mr 88]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I have not seen any shims with the kits. One machine makes the races and one the bearing. Finnished product goes into seperate boxes. Then it is a crapshoot when the worker throws them together, if you are looking for spacecraft tolerances,then by all means break out the mic's and scopes!Were talking about a guy that just wants to replace it for the sake of replacing. Not a guy that smacked the worlds largest reef, ripped off the outdrive and sunk his boat.

 

[telstar1]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

Glenn are you sure youre talking about the same thing?The self aligning cartridge in the gimbal bearing is not,I think,a "race" as the term is commonly used.I actually dont know what its called so Ill borrow the cartridge term from other posts. It simply holds the bearing in place and allows it to align properly.As far as dying from a bad gimbal bearing install well I guess youre entitled to your opinion, as am I ,Im of the opinion that is so remote a possibility that ,if considered at all likely, would have wiped out stern drive sales years ago.After all gimbal bearings fail for reasons other than installation issues,such as water ingress.Theres warning signs when it happens.There is a significant difference between fact and opinion,Id like to mention.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I agree there is a difference between comparing a tapered bearing with its inner and outer race and a gimbal bearing with its cartridge.

I am somewhat reluctant to jump into this fray... but here goes!

In the Mercruiser bulletin posted, which I have seen many times, they give two reasons for saying this is a bad idea:

1. "The bearing is selectively fitted to the cartridge during manufacturing and must remain together as a matched set." To be honest - I doubt this seriously. There is no way they match these parts together with some sort of micrometer, etc. No way.

2. "Secondly, bearing may be damaged from lack of lubrication, if bearing is installed backward."

Ah! We have a winner!

This, to me, is the real reason. Too many people were installing them backwards - not making sure the grease hole is lined up with the groove. This was causing problems and making customers angry and dissatisfied. Soultion? Turn the assembly around so it can't happen.

Having said all of that - I always replace the entire assembly. It is just too easy not to do it right.

 

[skippyon1o1]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I'm not much of a mechanic ,but bearings are matched ,not replacing both pieces(race/bearing) is not really fixing anything

 

[GLENN M]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

i was refering to comments about finding alternative repair procedures or patches,not nessassary the bearing race. although get a flat tire in a car or motor quits you can coast off road.in a boat motor quitting wrong time yes could be fatal.i fish in and around georgia strait b.c ive been over board 600 feet from boat launch in a 3 ft chop holding my boat off rocks because my boat decided to overheat and then hydraulic.it was a mistake if happened again, were riding rocks it was winter and i thought i was dead.it was a long 15 min for coast guard,whose dock i could see.i take boating safety and maintanance very seriesly now,sorry for coming on so strong a boat quitting for any reson at wrong time could be life and death

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

but bearings are matched ,not replacing both pieces(race/bearing) is not really fixing anything

Again - we aren't talking about a race/bearing... like a tapered wheel bearing with its matching race. The issue in that case is that the bearing and race begin to wear into a pattern.

The issue here is a gimbal bearing and its cartridge. Completely different situation.

 

[telstar1]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

This thread has probably about run its course but Ill add one last OPINION of mine. I feel one heck of a lot safer on the water, even when Im broke down(rarely)since I still have an anchor, auxillary ob and a VHF . . Never mind the coast guard, never needed them yet,hopefully never will,but (Iguess) they are an additional resource..This compared to a car where a flat or bearing failure could lead me into oncoming traffic,or, more likely, someone elses problem pulling them into my path. All this at closing speeds over twice that of usual boat traffic.Just the way I feel.Ill take a considered chance on a boat repair where Ill be a bit more cautious about it on a car.

 

[dn010]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

Well anyway; I did get the bearing WITH the cartridge so it is all about removing the old cartridge this weekend and pounding the new one in. I plan on using my slide hammer to get it out; I'll let ya know what happens.

 

[dn010]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I'm having a bit of difficulty removing the cartridge... Would applying some (not red hot) heat from a propane torch have any negative effects on transome? I have it soaking in PB for a little right now...

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I'm having a bit of difficulty removing the cartridge....

You do have the old bearing in correct? Makes it much easier to remove with the bearing in place.

And I don't remember the age or model you are working on... but some of the old ones had a snap ring holding it in. Might want to check.

 

[dn010]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

Aye, old bearing in cartridge with no snap ring. Its a '78 470 outside and engine. I cleaned the grease and grime out from in front of the bearing cartridge and there doesn't look like any corrosion so I'm a bit surprised it won't come out... I haven't tried it since the last post, figure I'd let it soak for now...

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I would try a bigger slide hammer before trying to apply any heat.

As an alternative - look in the adults only stickey at the top of the page. Seems like there is a post about various tools, including one about what you can use as a gimbal bearing puller.

EDIT - In fact, Here's the post.

 

[telstar1]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

Guess why some of us change just the bearing.These things can be stuck in there good.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

I welded a log chain to the center of mine and gave it the old whip crack about 4 times. Beat my brains out with the slide hammer first.

 

[dn010]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

Well I'm not sure if it was the PB or what but I just went out there and tried the slide hammer again; it slowly came out! Thanks guys for all the help; just gotta pound the new bearing in, put everything back together and hopefully be back on the water!

 

[sethjon]

Re: Gimbal bearing question

Pre-alpha drive (#470 drive on a 1978 year boat). I know the manual says to change the gimbal bearing and cartridge all at once but I have done a little research and some folks say to just pop the old bearing out and put a new one in the old cartridge; has anyone changed the bearing leaving the old cartridge installed? What would be the downside to this? Secondly; my alignment tool is MIA - think I left it among a mass of parts in NY which I am unable to go dig thru until a few months from now so, can I just use the old [long] yoke to make sure the engine/bearing is aligned?? Thanks guys!

Why would youeven think about not replacing the cartridge? To save $5?? Its not worth it and better safe than "oh ****", now I gotta pull it out again.