Getting Paid.

[JustJason]

Hey guys, I have one I thought I'd bounce off you all.
I runa mobile marine business. Most every customer, new or old, there isn't a problem in getting paid.
I even deal with a few small business's, serviceing their boats, and there's not a problem.
But i've seem to come into a glitch with 1 of those business's.
I have a customer that runs a canoe/paddleboat/kayak/sailboat rental business on a Massachusettes resivour. He has 2 locations. He has 3 safety boats between the 2 locations, and I service all 3 of them.
Long story short, there was an old owner, that sold the business to the new owner, boats and all. All the boats had some issues that the old owner chose to neglect. I've done a bunch of work to all 3 boats over the last 4 years, and I only had to chase the owner (old owner) once.
I did my 2nd job for the new owner 2 weeks ago. The first job, the owner was not there, but his employees were. After the job was done I contacted the owner and went over everything with him, he said he'd send out a check, and he did in a timely manner, and there was no issue at all.
Now the second job, the job is done but the boat does still have some issues. He is choosing not to do the recommended work.
Either way he owes me 100 bucks in parts, that I paid for, and 200 in labor. So a 300 bill. We talked a week ago, and everything seemed right as rain.
It's 10 days later and I haven't seen my money yet.
I left him an email, and then a voicemail, a few days apart. And I have yet to get a response. And it's been 2 days now.
I wrote him another email tonight, a bit more threatinging. Along the lines of saying if I dont recieve a check, i'm comming down to pull the parts I paid for up front out of the boat.
How long would you guys wait before you go down to pull the stuff? It's throttle shift cables, a throttle return spring, and a few bushings on a johnson outboard.
It's a bass boat, and there is a bit of trim to remove in order to access the T/S cables. If I pull the trim to pull my cables. Do I have to put the trim back legally? If I pull the throttle arm return spring, do I have to put the old one (the one I took out last week) back in? I don't have it.
Anybody got some comments about this? If I go out to do it, he's going to have employee's that will probably fight me a little. And the boat will be inoperable if I pull my parts.
How many of you guys are sef employed and how tough do you get on bill skippers?
Regards,
Jason

 

[cattrakr]

Re: Getting Paid.

First Off, It's Shame When A Business Man Does'nt Pay His Debts. Second Not Sure On Mass. Laws Concerning Liens. But I'm A Diesel Mechanic And In Louisiana If You Perfrm Maintenance On Any Type Of Vehicle, You Have The Right To Put A Mechanics Lien On Property Until Paid Due Wage. But There Seems To Be A Couple Things Of Concern. One, You Are A Mobile Business, So You Don't Have Posession Of Boats To Use As A Means To Collect. Also Taken Parts Off And Leaving Boats In A Condition Other Than What You Found Them Doesn't Speak Well On Your Behalf. In My Opinion I Would Contact A Lawyer In Your Area That Gives Free Consultations And Explore Your Rights Before Going To War. Usually A Letter From A Lawyer Will Get There Attn, And It Keeps You From Doubling Your Labor/loss Time.

 

[cattrakr]

Re: Getting Paid.

Don't Know If You Seen My First Post, On The Bigfoot Shift Shaft But Any Pointers You May Have Would Be Appreciated.
First Timer For Me , Jason

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Getting Paid.

That is a problem self employed face captJason.
I don't know your laws, but what I would suggest is: you are fortunate you are only being hung out to dry on a small amount, and the majority of it is labour.
You are fortunate he didn't give you 10 times the work and then the flick.

I would try and speak to him in person, quickly....it is past the e-mail and voice mail 'thing', and I think you have to be quite firm, but sort of polite if possible. Very difficult.

I have been dudded for a little every so often....I know it sounds stupid....but it sort of reminds me of what can completely stuff small business men if they don't have situations like this in the back of their minds all the time.

I do hope it is all a misunderstanding and it all turns out well.

It chews me up inside when it happens.
Good luck
Cheers
Phillip

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Getting Paid.

The laws between here (Germany) and there (the States) are different, so I won't offer any legal advice. But you do get my sympathy.

I have $144,154.53 in outstanding bills that I will never see. These were accrued in the last 8 years by, for the most part, middle and large sized well known companies. They pay when at all in 30 days at best, normal is to push it to 90. I have fought with some for more than a year and a half before receiving payment. Once you finally get paid, you never hear from them again.

Many run up bills and then close the company, change the name a tiny bit and reopen a day later as a new company, debt free. All legal in Germany. They do this regularly, just standard business practice here. You can chase them in court for years and never see a penny.

The big international companies here just play the cat and mouse game of have your lawyers call our lawyers. This can go on for years.

I now tell them I want 50% up front, 25% on completion of 50% of the job, and the rest payable within 30 days of delivery. In most cases they scream at this. When I explain that if the business here were honest and payed their bills, it would not have come to this point. Then I have to hear how they always pay their bills.

A few phone calls, Frankfurt is small, and my network in the industry is large, almost always returns the answer that they are deadbeats, don't pay without threats from attorney's and the court. When I confront them with this information, and insist that they play by my rules or not at all, I generally never hear from them again.

They act like they have been insulted as a nation, and that Americans are all after their money, and are greedy. They pull this same crap with my German friends, just come back with different artificial reactions of being insulted culturally. Germans always pay their bills, it is the foreigners that are dishonest, bla, bla, bla, bla ...

They often think that they can hide behind the fact that I am not German, and they will not have to pay. They can be really ridicules in their excuses.

Unlike companies that sell a product that can be reclaimed through repossession, I sell “Intellectual Property”, when it is in their hands, it is gone and I can't get it back. Once it is seen by them, it is used & they have profited or received what they ordered.

The situation here was not always like this, there was a time when a Germans word was literally a "legally binding contract".

Not anymore, they are now known as professional scammers, even among themselfs. Sad to see a culture change so dramatically in such a short time period.

If I can, I try to only work with other foreign business people.

Americans are also starting to be added to the list of groups to watch out for, running up bills all over town, and then running back to the States when the enterprises go bust. I still give them a chance, but they start with a short line, and the longer they cover their debts, the longer the line they get.

Countries I enjoy working with are Canadians, British, Australians, and Austrians. At least in my experience up till now, they still have a little business morals left.

It sucks to spend more time chasing after your money, than doing the work in the first place.

Good luck!

I hope you get your money, and keep them as clients.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Getting Paid.

Jason, what are your normal payment terms? Does your written invoice say "due within 10 days"? Or is it 30 days?
Whatever your normal and past practice regarding payment, i would stick with that. Be firm, but not threatening, please. (Looks like that might have happened already.) Try to get the owner to make a statement one way or another. Meaning, "I'll pay you today, come on over" or "No, I am not happy with the work, i ain't paying"
If he refuses to pay, yes, go get your parts. But you will HAVE to return his boat to the EXACT condition, prior to your work beginning. If you don't have the old parts, then you are stuck. You can't take your parts off, and leave him with less than he had. I just had a lady from Quebec do that to me on a camera she bought on ebay. I shipped it, she stole two parts off of it, replaced them with generic ones, and claimed I sold her a bad camera and demanded a refund. Guess what, EBay and PayPal sided with me, cause she didn't return my camera intact. See the similiarity?

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: Getting Paid.

I invoice all shifty customers in my construction business (Stairways)with 5/5, a 5% discount incentive to pay earlier than the fifth day. Getting a check for half up front in the absence of a written contract is a good idea too because it shows intent. For a mobile service business I'd expect payment upon completion every time (It costs money to chase money.). Back to where you're at though. I've been in that situation once in the past five years and quite a bit more often than that when I was younger. By once I mean seriously past due. I'm used to the occasional 2 week cat and mouse game. Anyways, I imagine you will certainly find a way to get paid, but keeping the customer might be a little tricky. It sounds like you gave him a decent deal, find a polite way to remind him of that. Mention some of the unresolved issues with the boats and explain why you are the friend he needs to fix these affordably rather than someone else who won't take care of him the way you do. If all else fails, hit em where it hurts. I've entertained the idea before of walking into operations at peak and asking aloud if setting up payments would help them GET BY ot "how much can you pay today" or "You did get your bill, right". Never done that yet though. The farthest I've ever had to go was mention very calmly that we had clients or suppliers in common.. Or that I am on my way to see them for any variety of reasons. They know at that point that it is time to pay or things could get ugly as far as their solvent reputation goes. I guess my main point is NEVER threaten outright, and NEVER lose your cool. That gives them complete control. Remind them that you are part of their world and industry too and that you both need eachother, and your not someone to be swept under the rug.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Getting Paid.

Well... it looks like it's getting resolved. The email I wrote was a bit threataning but totally professional. It's the lack of communication that kills me. But he did finally get back to me this morning.
I'm a pretty big dude, and although i'm a big goof ball in my personality, I can be scary/intimidating if I need to be. Most people are intimidated by me until they get to know me.
How many times in the past have you guys had to pull out the muscle? And obviously aside from physical stuff, how much muscle is to much? It's tough being mobile, because I have no collateral.
Being a mechanic, my terms are payment is due upon completion of work and customer satisfaction. I don't leave/accept payment untill the customer is satisfied. I take care of all the parts ordering, most of my suppliers are COD with parts but I do have 2 that i have the option of them billing me on a monthly cycle.
The only exception to that is if I have to order a part that is rediculously expensive, then I will ask for a deposit on the job up front.
I think that because I have been fair and honest with people, I don't really have problems. Every once in a while something pops up, but gets resolved quickly. It's when I feel that i'm getting "blown off" is when I get terribly irate.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Getting Paid.

I used to do computer programming. I did several custom applications for small companies. After not getting paid by two of them, I instituted a new policy. The final version of the program included a time limit of 100 days. After that time, it would come up with a splash screen explaining that the program had not been paid for and would no longer work. Anyone running the program in the company saw the splash screen.

My terms were payment in full in 30 days. If I was paid before the 100 day limit, I'd come in and do a small maintenance upgrade, gratis, which removed the limit.

Three times, the limit took effect. I got paid that very day in all three cases.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: Getting Paid.

I used to do computer programming. I did several custom applications for small companies. After not getting paid by two of them, I instituted a new policy. The final version of the program included a time limit of 100 days. After that time, it would come up with a splash screen explaining that the program had not been paid for and would no longer work. Anyone running the program in the company saw the splash screen.

My terms were payment in full in 30 days. If I was paid before the 100 day limit, I'd come in and do a small maintenance upgrade, gratis, which removed the limit.

Three times, the limit took effect. I got paid that very day in all three cases.

I like that!

To bad it would not work for most of my projects.

Maybe this is what I need ...

Your mission, should you decide to accept it is to pay your bill. Should you decide not to pay at once, this project will self-destruct in five seconds.

Good luck.

1 2 3 4 5

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Getting Paid.

Well..... everyone has given good advice.

It is past the end of the season here in NE and everyone who depends on tourists are have a slower cash flow........ nature of the beast.

Figure what income you will make in the future..... is this outstanding bill worth burning the bridge?

OR

Hire a "bill collector" named Vito....... no one say's no to a man named Vito!

 

[Andy in NY]

Re: Getting Paid.

I wouldn't recommend taking your parts back... I think you could run into some tresspassing issues. If I had my car fixed and say my check bounced... weather I was right or worng with the payment... and there was the mechanic in my driveway under the hood of my car taking the parts back he would be meeting Mr Smith and Mr Wesson, until Mr State Trooper arrived.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Getting Paid.

You're whining about 10 days?

Come do work for my employer and you'd be lucky to get paid in 120 days.

 

[gss036]

Re: Getting Paid.

I think after the 90 days grace has past, inform the client you really do not want to spend an extra $20 to file a small court claim, which will stay on his credit record for 7 years, most will pay up.
If you have a continual problem with this out fit, ask them if it is alright for you to order the parts on thier business acount and mention the slow payment history. It is hard to stay in business when you pay some elses bills and give away your time.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: Getting Paid.

I started working on mowers part time to make some extra fun money but soon found out that getting paid was a big problem. I had several yuppy types beat me out of just the 25 bucks I charged to service their mowers. So now I DONT WORK ON FRIGGIN THING I DONT OWN...As far as a full time marine service maybe a signed repair order with an up front deposit just to tell them whats wrong and then 100% cash the minute you finish the job.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: Getting Paid.

I started working on mowers part time to make some extra fun money but soon found out that getting paid was a big problem. I had several yuppy types beat me out of just the 25 bucks I charged to service their mowers. So now I DONT WORK ON A FRIGGIN THING I DONT OWN...As far as a full time marine service maybe a signed repair order with an up front deposit just to tell them whats wrong and then 100% cash the minute you finish the job.

 

[fdmsiv]

Re: Getting Paid.

Send a registered letter to the owner. This way he/she cannot deny receiving a bill.

I would inform this person that they have to pay in a certain amount of time. Be very clear on how much is owed to you and what it is owed for.

After that time expires, call the police and file a report for stolen goods.

Take him/her to small claims court with all of the documentation you can think of.

In the mean time, track down other O/B mechanics in the area and see if they have any experience with this company, if not you could clue them in to your plight.

It really sucks to have to go to such extremes for $300, but there are some real (fill in what you want) out there.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Getting Paid.

Disastrous advice.
Its silly for the sake of $300, in business thats nothing.
Lawyers, court sheesh!
If you're deperate for $300 then you need more business volume or do something else. Or tell them to bring it to you, then keep it til they pay. Or if you insist on being mobile go get it, return it when they pay.
Next time they need some work tell them you need to speak with the owner, go have a chat and express your expectations.

I wholesale to other businesses, been doing it for 25 yrs.
I get rid of the deadbeats, most still owe me money and I consider it to be a guarentee to keep them from coming back.
My invoices state net 10 days , its usually more like 25 days.
I sell to small guys and billionaires, they all do business the same way.
As do I.

I long ago quit fretting about receivables and focused on good payers and more volume, the duds were dropped and the good ones kept onboard. I let all new accounts know up front, I ain't gonna pester you for a check, don't pester me to keep delivering because I'll be busy looking for new accounts.

Talking shop with a guy I do business with I whined "I am owed a constant $6K at any time"

he said I've always got $100K out there in recievables.

I'm in Boston, tough market but acting tough is like getting stupid.

 

[rwise]

Re: Getting Paid.

*go get the parts* is really bad advice and illeagle in some states, like here! It just aint worth Jail time fer $300 bucks,,,, be careful

If'n they dont pay, file a lean against their property and refuse further screwings, I mean business!

check your local laws!!!!!

I was in a business with a partner, when we had a deadbeat, now he was about 350 lbs and not all fat, I about 250, hair to my ars, beard half way to me tummy, standing behind him with a 24" crescent wrench over my shoulder, they paid immediately!!

Good luck!!

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Getting Paid.

Take him to small claims court after you write him a letter giving him a week to pay you.

And thats all you can do LEGALLY !

And i strongly suggest that you don't go on his property to remove anything, cause the hope diamond might be on the boat, and you took it understand.