Gelcoat wont polish flat..

a67429

Cadet
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
6
The boat in question is a red 1990 Donzi Z33 crossbow. The problem was HEAVY oxidation and years of neglect. The solution was to sand and polish it back into shape. Now this gel coat was REALLY bad, the raised edge from the full length hull decals needed to be removed so the entire hull was sanded with 320 on a DA, then 600, then, 1000 wet, followed by 2000 wet. Those steps seemed to go without a hitch aside from then random deep scratches which seem unavoidable when wet sanding with thosethose super fine grits.

Next was to move onto compounding. I used a variable speed rotary, with a makita wool pad and 3M super duty compound. Yes, this compound may be a little rough, but I wanted to make sure and get the random deep sanding scratches picked up from wet sanding with a DA. This is where things hit a wall though.

While the surface does looks a lot better than before, and is fairly reflective, it just isnt what it should be. The surface is retaining a roughness average that I can't get rid of resulting in dull reflections. While the reflection may look 'ok', when up close and looking at the a reflection of a straight line...and then focusing on the surface of the boat is when it shows best...very uneven.

If were asked about this problem I would say it wasn't sanded enough with the finer papers before moving to compound or the pad was the problem. But even sanding a small section by hand with the two smoothest papers and then compounding yielded the same result, as did skipping the compound and going straight to the 3M machine polish..with a foam or wool pad. Light pressure, heavy pressure, low speed only, low speed increasing to high with less pressure...always the same roughness average making go insane.

Looking closely at the surface its almost as if the pigment in the gelcoat is polishing off at a different rate than the gelcoat resin? Could it be this gel coat is too far gone to be saved? Could the compounds be the problem? Should I continue wetsanding with 3000 grit trizact discs or up to 4000 Abralon discs and use a gentle polish on the DA from there? This is a pretty big boat, and I can't afford to spend another 40 hours on this hull on top of the 50 or so I've already got in it.

So any help would greatly appreciated.
 

tazrig

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
1,752
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

Sometimes the gelcoat is only so thick and the oxidation just goes in too deep. Sounds like you have gone about as far as you can go. IMHO
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
52,103
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

This is a pretty big boat, and I can't afford to spend another 40 hours on this hull on top of the 50 or so I've already got in it.

So any help would greatly appreciated.

if you cant afford the time to repair and maintain it, you may want to consider another hobby

now on to your question. I assume your using the DA to wetsand. if so, try wetsanding by hand. yes, I said by hand. the problem with the DA is that it is moving too fast, any bit of clogged or gummed paper will re-abraid your gel.

try an area by hand, and use a lot of water.

if the gel is indeed gone, then the best you can do now is paint.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
18,960
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

Pictures would help, but as the others indicated, may be too far gone, and the gelcoat is only so thick so you may be getting too close to the fiberglass & resin that exists below it. There is only so much that you can 'fix' by removing material.

But without pictures . . . :noidea:

You could do a spray of new gelcoat to get to a new surface.
 

gddavid

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
193
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

If you have a nice smooth finish but it is remaining dull, a wax might do the trick for you. While it won't be perfect it may look good enough to make you happy without spending a rediculous amount of time on it. No reason to drive youself nuts on a cosmetic issue.
 

jbcurt00

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
25,256
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

I think this isn't the OP's boat, based on the 'can't afford to spend another 40hrs' comment......

Is it a dark gelcoat? Red or maroon perhaps.....

Yep, pix if you have them BEFORE & DURING what you've done up to this point would be helpful.....

As Scott mentioned:
Those steps seemed to go without a hitch aside from then random deep scratches which seem unavoidable when wet sanding with those super fine grits.

Next was to move onto compounding. I used a variable speed rotary, with a makita wool pad and 3M super duty compound. Yes, this compound may be a little rough, but I wanted to make sure and get the random deep sanding scratches picked up from wet sanding with a DA. This is where things hit a wall though.
A pix would help a great deal:
While the surface does looks a lot better than before, and is fairly reflective, it just isnt what it should be. The surface is retaining a roughness average that I can't get rid of resulting in dull reflections. While the reflection may look 'ok', when up close and looking at the a reflection of a straight line...and then focusing on the surface of the boat is when it shows best...very uneven.
Sounds like you've tried wax already
If were asked about this problem I would say it wasn't sanded enough with the finer papers before moving to compound or the pad was the problem. But even sanding a small section by hand with the two smoothest papers and then compounding yielded the same result, as did skipping the compound and going straight to the 3M machine polish..with a foam or wool pad. Light pressure, heavy pressure, low speed only, low speed increasing to high with less pressure...always the same roughness average making go insane.
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
25,932
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

This is my question as well, Is this YOUR boat or a customers?
 

a67429

Cadet
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
6
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

I have a background in automotive refinishing, and am aware of proper sanding techniques. While I have painted and color sanded a number of cars, gelcoat is proving problematic compared to polyurethane. The hull is red. I've sanded a couple small sections by hand to no avail, and today tried abralon discs to 2000 grit followed by attempting to polish / compound with a DA....same result.

No, it's not my boat, but I also dont do this for a living. An hour plus per linear foot just seems like more time than it should take. That works out to around 15 mins per square foot...hobby or job, time is money and no matter how much we love our boats I can't imagine anyone enjoys this part of it all that much.

I think that one of two things...or the combination of both is occurring here. One is that I'm just expecting too much, and that the gelcoat of that era just isnt able to accept a "perfect" finish because of its inherent porosity coupled with its pigments being different hardness than its resins causing them to be removed at different rates.

Ultimately the owner LOVES the way its coming out, says its never been so shiny, that's what matters most I suppose. If this finish was on my car though, I'd take it back to the shop and complain. Perhaps by the time its polished, sealed and waxed I'll be happy with it as well.

I'll try and get some photos tomorrow.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
52,103
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

gel coat is NOT paint.

plus, with 25 year old gel that has oxidized, it will never be "perfect" being red, makes things worse.

if the owner does not wax the boat often (by often I mean 4 times a year) he should expect the oxidation to return. I know, my '88 is red (more of a pink in some areas)
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
25,932
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

Ditto!!!^^^ GelCoat is NOT Paint!!! If you're looking for the Shine of Paint...FuhGetAboutit!!!!!!!
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Gelcoat wont polish flat..

After about 1000 to 1200 grit you won't see much of a benefit, if any, with a DA 800 should be plenty with most gel coats, and few go past 1000.

Buffing compound brand and grit can make a big difference, using a fast cut product at the beginning may require more steps to achieve a good gloss.

Red can be a difficult color to bring back to life, and every boat will be different, you can do everything right and still not get the results you desire.

Without seeing the exact defect (texture of the surface) it would be hard to say what may help.
 
Top