Gear oil in outdrive

[Leedanger]

Serial tag is missing on the outdrive so I'm not sure which manual to check to verify if this outdrive is really supposed to have gear oil in it, I thought with these older volvos it's all motor oil. Says 275 on the shift linkage plate. Engine serial says CU 61234 and printed on the valve covers is 225E. The U-joints were supposedly done last year by some shop from off the grid somewhere, but first time out I'm told the boat started making violent clanking noises from what they thought was the outdrive and they shut the boat down.

First what I need is to know which manual I should be using, but secondly I was hoping maybe someone had a real good idea as to what they might think the problem is. In my opinion also, the outdrive has a considerable amount of play (up down left and right) when pushing in either the up or down position. However, I'm not near as familiar with this style of outdrive and that may be normal. Reminds me of when the steering bushing goes out on a Merc.

View attachment 189489

 

[Don S]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

The 270 manual is the one you want, 275 only indicates power steering. 30W engine oil for the drive is best.
Those old drive do have a lot of play L&R, and the lockdown mechanism does have a lot of movement up and down.
You could spend a lot of time with the steering bushings and epoxy to get them as close as you can, but they are still going to have a lot of play.

 

[Leedanger]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

Thanks Don. I plan on doing a leak down test, but other than that I wasn't quite sure the best place to start. I figured I'd start by pulling the drive and checking the U-joints and gimbal unless you disagree. I suppose it's hard for anyone to know based on the limited amount of information.

 

[Don S]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

You don't have to pull the whole drive to check ujoints, and it doesn't have a gimbal bearing.
You just need to pull the upper gear box. If you are going to do that and the bellows is over a few years old, replace it. You're only looking at most a 45 minute job to pull the upper gear box, change the bellows check things out, and put it all back together.

http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser...tdrives/outdrive-side-pin-removal-309095.html

 

[Leedanger]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

I saw that sticky, I just didn't think it would give me a good look at the non existent gimbal bearing :redface-new:. Thanks Don...I really appreciate it. You've helped me out a countless number of times.

 

[Don S]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

There is a bearing (or two) in the flywheel cover, but you can't really see them unless you pull the rear seal and clean the grease out.
On the 225 engine, there is two bearings. To replace them if they get water in them and get rough and noisy, you have to pull the engine.

View attachment Overhauling the Flywheel Cover.pdf

 

[Leedanger]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

Bellows was full of motor oil and water...which is interesting being that the outdrive had semi-synthetic gear oil in it. Also the U-joint was busted into pieces, apparently the shop didn't do so well with the repair the first time. Is it possible that they just did something wrong or would you guess they just never replaced it in the first place? Could have just been a faulty part as well I suppose. I just don't want to repeat history.

 

[captmello]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

Doesn't sound good. Yes, it should have motor oil in the outdrive, not gear lube. The oil in the bellows, if it's not the gear lube, is from the previous lube in the outdrive I would suspect. The seal in the upper gear box has failed and is allowing the drive oil to leak into the bellows. How much movement is there in the shaft that the ujoint yoke fits over? There should be none, up down, in or out. Does the outdrive turn smoothly when you spin the prop?

 

[Don S]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

Is it possible that they just did something wrong or would you guess they just never replaced it in the first place?

Since they didn't have the right oil in the drive, I would guess that anything else they did was also by guessing and not really knowing what they were doing but it looked good at the time.
When you check that shaft in the flywheel cover for movement, also pull the outer seal and look at the grease. If it's milky or brown and rust colored or there is water in the grease, you will need to pull the housing and replace the bearings. Movement of that shaft could also take out the ujoints, along with the end of the flywheel cover and upper gear box where the bellows attaches,.

 

[Leedanger]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

How much movement is there in the shaft that the ujoint yoke fits over? There should be none, up down, in or out. Does the outdrive turn smoothly when you spin the prop?

There is movement, very little but it does move, in all directions. Looks like I am pulling a motor. Additionally there is a piece broke off of the upper gear housing. Not sure if the drive can survive the way that it is. View attachment 189644 Yes the prop does seem to move smoothly.

 

[Don S]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

Yeah, you need a new clamp ring for that gear box too. It will have to be re-shimmed, to verify backlash and gear pattern. Not really a job for the inexperienced. Plus the engine pulled, how does the back of the flywheel housing look, is it busted up like the upper clamp ring?

PS, that clamp ring alone for the upper runs between 650 and 1000 bux, depending on the serial number range and which one you need.

 

[Leedanger]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

Yeah, you need a new clamp ring for that gear box too. It will have to be re-shimmed, to verify backlash and gear pattern. Not really a job for the inexperienced. Plus the engine pulled, how does the back of the flywheel housing look, is it busted up like the upper clamp ring?

PS, that clamp ring alone for the upper runs between 650 and 1000 bux, depending on the serial number range and which one you need.

No damage that I can see to the flywheel housing. I pulled that seal and some water did flow out afterwards but as far as the housing condition itself it appears to be unharmed. So is that section that broke off just more surface area for the bellows clamp to put pressure on? I was looking at pictures of other gear housings that had the U-joint off so you could see the clamp ring section clearly and I didn't really understand the great importance of that small section. Obviously it was engineered for a purpose, I'm just not seeing it.

So, if it really can't be avoided I think my plan of attack will be to find a used upper gear housing off of ebay or another outlet of some kind. I'm too far into this one to turn back now $ wise. I read the procedure in the book a few times....gonna read it a few more. Seems to me allot like doing a slightly more complicated rear diff. What makes it even trickier is the serial tag normally mounted to the top of the upper gear housing is missing. Well, I'm just gonna have to keep studying until I have a better understanding, probably not the recommended route, but trial by fire generally seems to be the only way to progression.

 

[captmello]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

Finding a different upper seems like a good option for you. I would spend the money for a rebuilt one or you may end up in the same situation. That seal that failed and let oil into the bellows is a common issue so I would expect a used one to have the same problem, but who knows. The new upper will need to be reshimmed to the intermediate assembly, but that doesn't look to hard. Pulling the engine and replacing the bearings in the flywheel housing is not a difficult job, just the inconvenience of pulling the engine, etc. Many of us have done it.

 

[Leedanger]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

I found a 280 local for $500, It's my understanding that the 280 should bolt up, but I wouldn't dare even begin to go that route without you all confirming for me that it would.

 

[Leedanger]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

I found the tags for each of the two different outdrives I want to swap. The one that is being repaired now (the 275) is: 27144725 (B) and the tag on the 280 I'm considering buying to swap is: 2881604 (B). Is there anyway of knowing if these two will match up by using those numbers?

 

[Leedanger]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

I found this: View attachment 189825 which makes me believe it will work, but I'd love for someone to confirm for me if possible.

 

[Don S]

Re: Gear oil in outdrive

The big thing with the uppers, is how the helmet attaches to the clamp ring.
There are 3 versions, and they are not interchangable.
Here are the 3 attaching pivot pins.