Gasoline in bilge :-(

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Unfortunately, our boat has a fuel leak somewhere.<br /><br />My partner (I wasn't at the moment) discovered the problem when the boat was put in the water for a saturday ride. He turned on the bilge pump (a normal check before leaving the dock) and noticed the color and smell of gasoline being pumped over the boat side!!! Thanks God nothing worst happened (I rewired the bilge pump system myself and all connections are well above the pump and sealed). The boat was lifted out of the water immediately. <br /><br />I have to say that I personally make a visual inspection of the bilge (among other things) everytime I'm about to use the boat. That way I can detect if something abnormal is happening. Now I realize the importance of the visual inspection.<br /><br />Well, now I have to check all the hoses (in/out/vent) and the sender gasket. I was told the tank is aluminium construction, and if hoses are ok I will need to cut the fiberglass floor and inspect/rebuild the tank.<br /><br />I will appreciate any advices from you regarding the fuel system (everything I should check/do), before starting this new boating maintenance adventure :-( <br /><br />I'm thinking in replacing all the hoses with a dry aspect and the corresponding clamps. I'm wondering about what kind of inspection/maintenace is appropriate for the fuel level sender and for the tank itself.<br /><br />Thanks in advance.
 

crazy charlie

Vice Admiral
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May 22, 2003
Messages
5,477
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

Find the source of the leak before you start replacing things.Check all the easy and obvious things first.How much gas are we talking about.Is it possible that some was spilled when the fuel/water sep. was replaced????Charlie
 

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

Yes, I will check everything carefully to find the leak before replacing anything.<br /><br />Dunno the quantity because I wasn't there when it happened and took me a week before I could go to the marina (I went this morning). I was concerned this morning with the possibility of finding the hull full of gasoline. However, I only found the minimal level in the bilge (the amount the pump can't pump anymore, i.e. about the level of the suction grill surrounding the body of the pump). However, it worries me that after a week, there is still gasoline in the bilge (shouldnt it evaporate totally?). All I know is that my partner saw a red liquid being pumped out. I guess the amount of fuel was then above the actual level, but not enough to activate the pump (I have it wired directly to the battery, so I don't cut the power to it when I kill the master switch). <br /><br />I'm still concerned about the middle hull section. I can't see it, because there are no access panels on the deck floor and there is a bulkhead? not sure if I'm using the correct term) very near the bilge, so I can't see too much in the bow direction.
 

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

oh, forgot the question about the separator filter. While I have to ask the mechanic just to be sure 100%, I dunno of any maintenance recently before the problem. I have to ask my partner too, but I'm almost sure nobody touched the filter since the last maintenance (maybe 2-3 months ago).
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

If you get to the point you decide the problem is the tank, you may be able to use positive air pressure to verify the tank really is leaking before you start cutting.
 

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

That sounds interesting. I could attach a pressure gauge and apply a gentle pressure to see if it decreases (after plugging all openings).
 

Bondo

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Apr 17, 2002
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70,894
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

Yep,<br />5psi will be Plenty....
 

18rabbit

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Nov 14, 2003
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3,202
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

It is how the city checks sewer lines for leaks. Code requires 2½-psi of air (or 5-ft of water) to remain for 15-minutes.
 

crazy charlie

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
5,477
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

How sure are you it is gas you see ????Red fluid is atf which is a leaking p/s pump or p/s cooler or trim pump.Sop it all up with absorber pads from any auto store.see what you really have leaking.Charlie
 

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

No doubt. It's gasoline. I smelled in the bilge and in the boat side opening of the bilge discharge. No doubts at all. As far as I know, there is no other fluid onboard, except for the vro tank oil and the acid solution inside the batteries.<br /><br />By the way, I disconnected both batteries. Do you think is safe to connect one just to turn the start switch and see the fuel gauge reading? ('cause I'm not sure if the tank is full or not).
 

18rabbit

Captain
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Nov 14, 2003
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3,202
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

YOU HAVE THE IDEAL SITUATION FOR AN EXPLOSION!!! <br /><br />Batteries often spark when connected. That’s all that is needed to ignite any gasoline vapors. I would clean out the bilge and remove all odors of fuel BEFORE reconnecting the batteries.<br /><br /> BE ABSOLUTELY SURE ALL GASOLINE FUMES ARE GONE BEFORE CONNECTING THE BATTERY!!!
 

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

OK OK. ROGER THAT. I WON'T RECONNECT THE BATTERIES. IN FACT, I WILL RETIRE THE BATTERIES FROM THE BOAT (TO AVOID SOMEBODY TRYING TO CONNECT THE BATTERY). IF THE FUEL LEVEL HAS TO BE CHECKED IT WILL BE WITH A WOOD STICK THROUGH THE FUEL LEVEL SENDER ACCESS.<br /><br />TODAY I LEFT THE BILGE ACCESS PANEL OPEN TO MAKE SURE THE FUMES ARE VENTILATED. MY PARTNER DID THE SAME WHEN THE PROBLEM APPEARED. THE BOAT IS IN A REST AREA (GROUND) AND I THINK THERE IS NO RISK OF SPARKS, FIRES, ETC NEAR IT.<br /><br />Geez, all this is geeting me nervous.
 

18rabbit

Captain
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Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

It’s not that big a deal. It’s just that the combination of gasoline hydrocarbons and a battery spark is perfect for detonation. I don’t even know if your batteries are near the fumes but the chance of an explosion out weights any error in my presumption.<br /><br />If you cannot smell any gasoline around the batteries, you can hook ‘em up. If you have any doubt, play it safe. You don’t even want to be breathing those fumes. I suggest getting a blower to vent the whole inside of the boat before you get intimate with finding the problem in any enclosed area.<br /><br />Here in the States we have really f’d up the formulation of our fuels. Just coming into contact with our gasoline containing MTBE is considered an emergency medical situation if there are any breaks (cuts) in the skin.
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
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Apr 22, 2002
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4,552
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

Kesh<br />I agree with Rabbit nothing that can make a spark until you are sure no fumes.<br /><br />How old is your boat. I thought Coast Guard required a mechanical guage on all tanks under the inspection cover.<br /><br />I personaly would not use the bildge pump either. Even if a brushless motor plastic or rubber spinning can generate static.<br /><br />On my tank all the hoses attach to the top of the tank under the inspection cover, and the mechanical fuel guage is also there. Also the electric fuel guage attaches there.<br /><br />Don't forget the fuel pump vent hose from the fuel pump to the carburetor.<br /><br />No vacuum cleaner, I say that only because out here a guy tried to siphon gas with a Wet dry shop vacuun cleaner and he is now in another world.
 

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

Batteries are just above the bilge access panel. Very near the fumes. So I won't take any risk and will retire the batteries out of the boat this morning. <br /><br />The fumes are not that much concentrated, because we left the bilge panel access open. However, I don't know if there is more gasoline trapped inside the hull. As I explained above, it is difficult to see other parts of the bottom of the hull. My boat is a 1994, made by a venezuelan company called "Coraline". So, I gues they don't pay too much attention to USCG rules.<br /><br />The deck of the boat is almost plain, with no access panels. Just some circular, small diameter (6 inches I guess) access panels here and there, and and opening for the bilge below the rear 3-people seat (where the batteries are located too).<br /><br />One of the those round ports is just below the gasoline cap, on the starboard side of the boat. Taking out that panel you can see the main hose and clamp that attaches to the gasoline cap and also the vent hose and the clamp attaching it to the vent fitting that goes through the hull to the outside of the boat.<br /><br />There is another round access panel below the center console. I guess that one is the access panel to the fuel level sender, but I'm not sure. I will examine it today.<br /><br />Besides those, there are no more access panels to see what is under the deck. I hate that, and that's a detail I will take in consideration when buying another boat.<br /><br />I WON'T USE A VACCUM CLEANER. THOSE THINGS ARE VERY SPARKY, I KNOW THOSE ELECTRICAL MOTORS. THANKS FOR THE ADVICE.<br /><br />One question: you said "Don't forget the fuel pump vent hose from the fuel pump to the carburetor." What did you mean?
 

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

oh, forgot another thing. I just want to thank you all for the advice. This is an excellent place to ask, and you all are very kind.
 

Ryoken

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
179
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

hey Kesh,<br /><br />some excellent advice frrom the fellas here and just a couple points to add/reiterate. a 10 yr old tank is slightly "young" to be bad, but certainly not unheard of, especially not knowing the manufacturer of the tank myself... and as the boys pointed out, pressure testing will be the way to go... just plumb together a fitting setup for a gauge with ability to put air to the tank. i have one made up specifacally for tanks... also make sure you put rubber strips down under a new tank, don't just put it directly on plywood or something.<br /><br />good luck and keep us posted :)
 

SS MAYFLOAT

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2001
Messages
6,372
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

Hi Kesh, Built in tanks are a real pain in the butt. I have the same set up. To remove all doubt on mine, I removed the tank. Big job that I hope I never have to do again.<br /><br />Have you tried lifing the bow of the boat up getting the gas to flow to the rear of the tank?<br />It could be during launching, the gas was pouring out of the vent instead of the bilge port. Mine will sometimes do this when the tank if full and the boat is on a steep incline.<br /><br />If you have access to CO2, you can inject the CO2 into the cavities in your hull to force out the gas fumes. This will help prevent any explosion. No oxygen, no fire. Dry ice pellets in a styrofoam container with some water in the bilge will force out the oxygen and fuel fumes making you bilge safer for trouble shooting. However be careful not starve yourself from oxygen depravation.<br /><br />Just a thought on helping you make your situation a little safer on troubleshooting.
 

Kesh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
272
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

Thanks. I went this morning to the marina, and retired the two batteries (which need maintenance and/or replacement, so this is a good occasion to do so).<br /><br />However, with two kids and wife waiting at home to go out on sunday, I didnt have the cold blood to stay more time with the boat and work today on the inspection of the fuel system. It has to be tomorrow.<br /><br />I'm planning the job as follows:<br /><br />1) Inspect main fuel line from tank to water separator filter. Take it out, Disconnect from tank and from filter, and check carefully. Anyways I will replace it as it is somewhat dry and old.<br /><br />2) Inspect round access panel under center console to see if I can reach the fuel level sender. If easy access is possible, I will smell the area (or use a hose to do it...I know it is not a healthy practice, but at least we don't have mtbe here...I will minimize the smelling anyways). I will try to visually inspect the fuel level sender assembly (to see if it is firmly in place, and there are no leaks there). I will try to see if all screws/bolts are in place... do you reccomend taking it out?? remember...there is fuel inside the tank....<br /><br />3) Try to visually inspect the main hose from gasoline cap to tank. It is a big diameter black hose. It looks in good condition, but I can't see the whole length, because the round access port is too small, and I only see the portion that attaches to the gas cap. I will inspect the clamp there to see if it seals ok. Dunno how the hell I will inspect the rest of the hose that goes vertically deep down the hull to reach the tank. I think this paragraph equally applies to the vent hose inspection.<br /><br />4) If at this point the leak is not detected, I need to have some specialist pump all the fuel out of the boat. There is a man here that renders that service for cleaning of fuel tanks. He did it once to our boat. I was not present, but I think he has the righ equipment to do that. In any case, I will make sure I'm at home when he does that !!!<br /><br />5) Once the tank is empty, I will make sure all fumes are ventilated. Maybe I will have to wait some days with the cap open and the line to the water separator disconnected. Maybe I will open the fuel sender too. Pumping some air to force ventilation could also be done. I have a vacuum cleaner that can be reversed to pump air instead of suck air. I was thinking in having the vacuum cleaner in the ground (not in the boat) , with the vacuum hose and tip pipe inside the gas cap, to force some air in the tank.<br /><br />6) Once the fumes are reasonably gone, proceed to the pressure test. I will seal: the line out to the separator filter, the fuel sender port, and the gas cap. I will try to pump air through the vent hose.<br /><br />Well, that's all I have in mind for now.<br /><br />Anyways I'm always happy of any opportunity to inspect my boat, so I know it more and more. That gives me an unvaluable safety sensation.
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: Gasoline in bilge :-(

Kesh<br />I think you will find the 6 inch access panel by your center console has all the hose conections to the tank the electrical connection to your guage and the mechanical guage.<br /><br />Most marine fuel pumps I have seen have two lines from the fuel pump to the carburetor. One is stainless steel main line to the carburetor fuel input. The second is a clear plastic hose to the carburetor vent and should have no fuel in it. The reason for this hose is incase the fuel pump diapham leaks the fuel does not go in the bilge but instead into the carburetor and is burned or it floods the engine. This hose is main difference between a marine fuel pump and a auto pump. The auto pump does not have this hose and if the diaphram breaks down the fuel just runs out on the ground. Of course that is not a good Idea in a boat. Hope you will come back and tell us what you find. Your boat is just too young to have a bad tank or even bad hoses.
 
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