FWIW as I see it.....................

[Limited-Time]

I was originally going to post this in txswinner's W's plan thread. But thought better after seeing the direction it was headed. <br /><br />Facing the enemy in a united stance, and conveying a unified message sends a strong statement to those battling against us. Dissention in ranks, be it military or civilian, is a sign of weakness to the opposition, and is viewed as an opportunity to be exploited. Wars fought with political restraints are difficult to win at best. Adhering to Political Correctness is not applicable in war time. It is akin to another weapon FOR the enemy. You have every right to oppose the war, and you have every right to have your opinions heard. If you think the elements we are battling against do not utilize our nations popular opinion poll’s to recruit more members and fuel their war machine, think again.

 

[dogsdad]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Right on the money, L-T. Unfortunately, rather than offer real alternatives or solutions, a certain faction insists on promoting strife as a means to regain power. Sad.

 

[QC]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Oh sure . . . use logic, reason and common sense . . . Jeez LT. How childish.

 

[alden135]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

LT's rambling on like a nut again. <br /><br /><br />

 

[Bondo]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Ayuh,......<br />Amen,.......<br />Absolutely....<br />Without a Doubt the Truth spoken there.......<br />

Originally posted by QC:<br /> Oh sure . . . use logic, reason and common sense . . .

And No Wonder the Liberals,.... Just Don't Get It............

 

[ZooMbr]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

With ya L-T. The greatest damage done to our country is the neg. spin on our actions: if it was a pos spin, just the facts, the world would have a different opinion of US. <br /><br />The libs are creating a problem for themselves: if they get in power they have tied their own hands with their mouth.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Originally posted by Hang'n In:<br /> With ya L-T. The greatest damage done to our country is the neg. spin on our actions: if it was a pos spin, just the facts, the world would have a different opinion of US. <br /><br />The libs are creating a problem for themselves: if they get in power they have tied their own hands with their mouth.

If the libs get in power, better break out the hardware, cause the fight will be on our soil then.

 

[PW2]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Ok, I simply don't understand.<br /><br />Who are the enemy, anyway? There clearly are some AlQaida types in the country now, no doubt.<br />More now than when we went in, but from all reports I have seen, it's maybe a thousand or two tops. There is no doubt they are the enemy, and are terrorists, and hopefully will be killed soon.<br /><br />But the bulk of the problem over there seem to be Insurgents, who don't want the presence of an outside occupying force, or are Sunnis, who are in the minority of the population, and don't want to give up the power they have enjoyed to the majority Shiites.<br /><br />This is not a major shock, as rarely will any group willingly give up power, and no one would like an occupying force.<br /><br />So are we to conclude the Sunnis are the enemy? And kill them? This is effectively taking the side of the Shiites over the Sunnis, and by all accounts, the Shiites are tight with Iran and are their natural political allies. Is that really what we want to happen? It's an honest question. I have no idea.<br /><br />We have succeeded in bringing democracy to Afghanistan, and now they want to impose Muslim law by murdering some poor soul that decided to convert to Chistianity. Is that what we are fighting for??? Now we may be able to exert our muscle in the region and save this poor guys life, but what happens down the line when the glare of publicity recedes?<br /><br />I suppose it is possible for the Iraqis to miraculously form a coalition government that the Sunnis buy into, and they all get together and capture and kill Al Zawahiri (sp?) and his ilk, and that would be wonderful. I just think that is not so much a role for the US Military as a blind hope for divine intervention.<br /><br />Is that the victory we are expecting, I wonder?

 

[QC]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

PW2,<br /><br />If I can take your post literally as I think you intended it, we only differ on two things. I believe the insurgents are murderous low-life scum too, and I believe we must attempt what you believe will only come through a miracle. I thought you felt we should leave instead of making that attempt, but I am not 100% sure anymore . . .

 

[technostingray]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Originally posted by SBN:<br />If the libs get in power, better break out the hardware, cause the fight will be on our soil then.

May I quote you on that? Oh! I just did.....

 

[KRS]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> ...from all reports I have seen, it's maybe a thousand or two tops...

buwhahahaahhahaahah.<br /><br />NOW HEAR THIS !!! PW2 knows how many terrorists are in country. He must have read it on the internet... so it MUST be true.

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Everyone is opposed to war. No one wants it.<br />Some have the foresight to look ahead , see the<br />inevitable. What inaction will bring. We have<br />already seen the result. 911 should of woke everyone<br />up. But it did not. Some folks think its just an<br />isolated attack. Once you take out the Taliban, go<br />after OBL. The problem is solved. No more attacks<br />on the homefront everything is O.K.<br />There is a very narrow mindset. Without strong<br />leadership and an unfaltering determination to<br />eliminate the root of the problem. The U.S. would<br />be in the crosshairs for some very big problems in the<br />very near future. <br />If the U.S. changes course and pulls out of Iraq.<br />(which would never happen) The war would most certainly<br />as SBN suggested, come to U.S. soil. <br />The real reality that liberals are trying<br />so desperately to bring about is division of a<br />very strong nation. Its very sad to see this come<br />about. Its all about power. Who has it. Who wants<br />it. And how desperate, and to what levels those<br />that dont have it will go too to divide the populace <br />and regain power again.

 

[PW2]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

______________________________-<br />What inaction will bring. We have<br />already seen the result. 911 should of woke everyone<br />up. But it did not. Some folks think its just an<br />isolated attack. <br />____________________________-<br /><br />See this is my problem with this logic. I absolutely agree with this. Al qaida, along with numerous other terrorist groups, are a huge problem. 9/11 did indeed teach us that, as well as the history in Israel and numerous other things. If ignored, they will not go away.<br /><br />They have a world wide presence to one degree or another, and we had, post 9/11, the world's support in fighting and killing these terrorists, as they are a threat to every legitimate government worldwide. Their goals are not nationalistic, but rather idealogically based, and are a threat to every legitimate goverment.<br /><br />So why did we go to Iraq??? I hear this argument all the time, but even the president admitted there was no connection between 9/11 and Saddam!<br /><br />So what do we do now? This is the reason why I thought from the beginning it was a mistake to go to Iraq. But we are there now, and we have to do something.<br /><br />I don't think we have any business in trying to choose which group, between Iraqis, leads Iraq. That is their fight. We need to fight the terrorists. Which is why I support the Murtha plan or something similar, which has us backing off, letting the Iraqis figure out among themselves who has control, while our role would be to make sure to keep foreign forces out, and refocus our efforts to enlist the world's help in going after the terrorists worldwide.

 

[QC]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

I am ashamed of only one 20th century war in which we have been involved. Vietnam. That shame is because we left and reneged on a promise we made to the South Vietnamese people. By leaving we also shamed those Americans who gave their lives, their conscience and their futures to some degree or another. Prior to that we finished what we started, and we left countries better than we found them.<br /><br />The so-called Murtha plan is Vietnam part 2. I support doing the right thing, which is to finish the job. We have an opportunity to prove to the World, our soldiers and all Americans that we fight for freedom. Freedom for Americans and freedom for others. As noble a fight as I can imagine.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

The political running of the war in Iraq is a travesty in itself. The type of engagement required to contain the violence (read insurgency, and in fighting) cannot be accomplished with the troop strength currently in place. Any attacks from entities within the country must by dealt with swiftly, and with overwhelming force. The hostiles within Iraq must learn that any aggressive act will command unmatched military reprisal. <br /><br />PW2, <br />As for whom the enemy is, we can begin with the initial groups you identified above. After those coalitions are rendered inoperable, we can re-evaluate the need for any further military presents in Iraq. <br /> As for my view of the real enemy, Muslim Extremist. That small portion of the Muslim population bent on enslaving the rest of the world with their religious beliefs and edicts. <br />Their myopic singular goal and the radical measures they employ cannot be over come using conventional tactics or means. The need for inelegance gathering, personnel and financial tracking at levels never before attempted require means and measures never before required. Fortunately or unfortunately, these means some times require a sacrifice of personnel liberties. Liberties we would NOT have had hundreds of thousands of OUR countrymen given up the most precious liberty of all.<br /><br />Again FWIW as I see it................

 

[POINTER94]

Re: FWIW as I see it.....................

Repost,<br /><br />The easiest way to find out if a person really cares about our troops is ask them what they are doing for them today. Not tommorrow, no chest beating with the benefit of hindsight for self glorification, but what are they doing for our troops today? <br /><br />Are they supporting them in word and action? Or are they simply name calling and spewing political hate for the furtherment of their position? Lets take an example. How exactly did Durbin calling our military NAZI's help the troops? How about the press misreporting Korans being flushed down toilets and causing riots and the deaths of innocents? Did that help our troops successfully complete their mission? How about insulting the CIC? Helpful to the troops? I know, I know, political speech is protected. OK, how does this help the troops?<br /><br />I am sure there can be debate and differing opinions regarding the execution of the war but how does calling our President a liar in the press help the troops today? <br /><br />How does telling terrorists they can freely operate within our country and that even listening to their phone calls won't be accepted constitute a benefit for our troops today?<br /><br />How does calling for censure of a president without even asking for the offending act to stop help the troops today? Sounds more like political strategy than military strategy?<br /><br />How is calling the effort a failure in the press help the troops today? Clearly it isn't a failure, as much as it isn't a complete sucess either. <br /><br />How is it that neither party has made a strong attempt to define and categorize what the status of a terrorist is? Military prisoner or crimminal? Why haven't they defined exactly what makes one a prisoner or a crimminal? And how does calling the president and by extension our troops, the largest terrorist in the world help our troops today?<br /><br />How does calling our mission a failure or an unworthy effort help our troops today?<br /><br />How does underminding someones efforts for victory based on political hatred help our troops today? How is it someone can complain about the efforts not being sucessful without calling our troops failures? How is it someone can complain about a plan, but have no other plan than to run away? How does that help the troops today?<br /><br />How can someone complain we are the bad guys when peace workers are having their heads lopped off by our enemy? How does the lack of outrage help our troops today? What message of support of our troops do we send then the abuse of a dog collar makes for a 2 month news cycle, while a beheading makes it only 24hrs with nothing more than cursory condemnation? How does daily publishing the names of our troops for world ridicule help our troops today while murderers are categorized as a insurgents. Does this help our troops today?<br /><br />Wars are won at home? What are you doing to support our troops today? The lefties endeared themselves to our troops in Vietnam by spitting on them and calling them baby killers as they came home. How is spitting on them in the press and on these boards any different?