Fuel issues. I think.

[Daviet]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

Without finding a manual, I think the fuel pressure at idle would be around 2-3 pounds of pressure.
The inline filter will not stay full when the engine is running.

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

ok update. after all this the boat still acts up ..nothing changed. took it to an evinrude dealer they verified the problem said it was not carbs because those were the cleanest they have ever seen.... checked a bunch of stuff and could not find anything wrong although they recreated the problem.. 325 dollars later they tell me they cant find the problem. they checked everything that could cause this and everyhting checked out. from electrical to fuel. i am a little upset and they saw this when they presented me with the bill and said sorry but we dont know whats wrong with it. i refused to pay the bill since they didnt fix it and he refused to release my boat. so after inquiring with the local police dept i had two choices.. either pay it and get my boat or drive off without paying it and leave the boat to be sold for the bill due on it. so i paid it. went to another evinrude dealer and showed them everything they checked and explained the problem, their response was "technician scratched his head and said well looks like they checked everything possible, i dont know of anything different to check either." so i asked what should i do now,and he said find a dumb ***** to pawn it off on really cheap and buy another boat or spend several thousand on another good engine. apparently my problem isnt a problem that can be fixed. the 2nd guy i talked to did do a couple of test to check (and didnt charge me) maybe he felt sorry for me or was a really great guy. but he replaced the carbs with a pair of known good carbs and did the same for the fuel pump. still same problem after running for a few min on the lake. the linc and sync was perfect. carbs were clean and floats properly adjusted. compression check was fine. coils were fine. fuel flow to carbs was fine. timing was perfect. engine temps were perfect. the first mechanic even called the evinrude tech hotline for assistance. worked with them for a day and a half testing this and that, after all the results the tech hotline guy from evinrude said with all that checking good it should be running as flawless as a brand new engine. so now should i sell or buy a new engine? or keep throwing money into this "ghost" problem? although both shops verified the problem is there neither know whats wrong with it. so if any of you guys have any suggestions i would really appreciate it before i give this boat away to some poor unsuspecting person that doesnt deserve the problems im having. i may just scrap this boat and salvage all the electronics off of it and buy a new 2012 or 2013 boat, but i promise it wont have an evinrude motor hanging off of it. i used to love johnson/evinrude but after this i think i will buy a boat with a nissan or god forbid mercury on the back of it.

 

[Grub54891]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

Weird problem......Try putting a clear fuel line in a section of the hose,as close to the motor/carbs as possible.Could there be a vacume leak in the fuel line? Or a seal on the crank or motor housing leaking? I'd pressure check the motor itself. I know,pull the power head seal it off and apply pressure to find any leak's. more work but it might be worth it for ya.
Grub

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

That engine is as good as any ever made, now and then. A bit thirsty but bulletproof.

It is not running OK, on the hose. It only appears to be. Those engines will appear to run fine on two or three cylinders with no back pressure (in water). Dunk them and you have no go.

Are you 100% certain you have a good strong spark on all four cylinders? The easist way to check is with an inductive timing light. They are cheap or you can rent one from an auto parts store.

If you don't know what a Sync and Link is, it is probably way off.

I have owned several of those engines. There is not that much needed to get them to run decent. But, you have to have the basics:

-known good fuel source.
-Known good compression.
-known good spark.
-known correct sync/link.​

 

[Grub54891]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

Well all the line is new and hose connectors are new. I have often wondered about the bulb because sometimes it takes literally ten or more minutes pumping to get it pumped up till its firm. Also I am running an above deck auaxilery tank due to my below floor tank leaks. I have a 15 gallon red plastic tank in the back of the boat. This shouldn't be a problem tho. Should it?

My brothers would collapse the plastic tank even with the vent open,thus making it run like that. Loosens the gas cap and it's fine!

 

[MACH1SCJ]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

I am fighting a poor idle with my 48 SPL.... I feel your pain.... Has anyone tried some different fuel?
That wont cost much to try. Maby try a different tank while your at it. I found carpet fibers in my carb & a clump of it in my fuel filter.

I would thinnk if you were running out of fuel (low fuel pressure) it would not maintain high speed.

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

That engine is as good as any ever made, now and then. A bit thirsty but bulletproof.

It is not running OK, on the hose. It only appears to be. Those engines will appear to run fine on two or three cylinders with no back pressure (in water). Dunk them and you have no go.

Are you 100% certain you have a good strong spark on all four cylinders? The easist way to check is with an inductive timing light. They are cheap or you can rent one from an auto parts store.

If you don't know what a Sync and Link is, it is probably way off.

I have owned several of those engines. There is not that much needed to get them to run decent. But, you have to have the basics:

-known good fuel source.
-Known good compression.
-known good spark.
-known correct sync/link.​

yes both shops checked all of that. link and sync was perfect. compression was 105-110 on all 4 cylinders, fuel source was good. spark was good

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

I am fighting a poor idle with my 48 SPL.... I feel your pain.... Has anyone tried some different fuel?
That wont cost much to try. Maby try a different tank while your at it. I found carpet fibers in my carb & a clump of it in my fuel filter.

I would thinnk if you were running out of fuel (low fuel pressure) it would not maintain high speed.

yes i can maintain WOT all day long with no problems. until i stop for a few minutes. once i stop i can fire it right up and go to engage it in gear and it dies the instant i get above idle in forward or reverse. it only has to be a short time stopped like pull up to the dock and walk 20 yards to back truck down ramp and hop backon boat to load it up and its actin up. but when its cold for example when i first unload the boat off the trailer it runs fine drop in gear and away we go and can ride all day unless we stop with no issues. but if we stop i have to run the fastidle for a few minutes and then put it in gear and push the key in to choke/prime it while advancing the throttle to get it to take off.

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

Weird problem......Try putting a clear fuel line in a section of the hose,as close to the motor/carbs as possible.Could there be a vacume leak in the fuel line? Or a seal on the crank or motor housing leaking? I'd pressure check the motor itself. I know,pull the power head seal it off and apply pressure to find any leak's. more work but it might be worth it for ya.
Grub

ok i dont have clear fuel line but i do have a clear inline fuel filter about 2" in diameter and i can see the fuel just trickle into the filter. but it runs this way even when the boat is running fine. i think i will try disconnecting the fuel line from engine and letting it run out and re connecting when i try to crank again and see if problem consist. maybe my fuel line is vapor locking or something i have no clue at this point

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

I will add to mention that a brief stop such as waiting for a tuber to get back in or stopping and idling for a few min has no affect only when I stop for a few min switched off. I would think if it was electrical issue that pushing the key in to choke it wouldn't affect it

 

[MACH1SCJ]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

In reference to the runs till shut off---Sounds like a heat soak issue & electrical parts tend to act up when hot or cold.

With having to run the fast idle & choke it sounds like lack of fuel.

Could the shops verify/duplicate the problem?

"and it dies the instant i get above idle in forward or reverse" It should be in the transistion circuits in the carb. The carbs on my Rude: transition is feed by the idle tube & the same air bleed jet as the idle circuit. If you let it idle for 10 min after a hot soak, is there any difference? I also thought about the stator advancing & a possible broken wire.

Where do the fuel lines run. It does kinda sound like a vapor lock issue but is it getting that hot to boil the gas? Maby the exhaust cover.

I have spent many hrs on my Rude & finally found the new fuel pump leaking into the signal port. I hope to find out tuesday if that solves my problem.

Another thought, can you set the fuel tank higher then the engine when you shut it off for a few min? Is it possible the fuel is draining from the fuel line back into the tank. "lossing the prime" "Rude82 " had sugested that several posts ago as well.

"yes i have heard the same thing but when it starts not wanting to prime, the direction i hold it dont matter. i have had to take the connector off the engine end and stick it down inside the tank to ever get gas up to the bulb... that way both ends were in fuel."
Should not the hose connector be sealed when off the engine? That would tell me you have an air leak at that location...You would think you would leak fuel at that location when pumping the bulb up tight.

When I replaced the bulb hose on mine & it would sit for more then a day there would be a fuel trail from where the hose fits on the bulkhead connector, I found that when I split the old hose with a knife I put a small grove in the brass connector which would alow fuel to leak out & leave a 6" long trail on the splash well.

"81_chapparel194" is 100% correct. Although I might change "known good fuel source" to correct air fuel mixture.

I consider myself a good auto tech but 2 stroke is a whole new world for me.. Just my rambelings & thoughts.

This is a great place with many very helpfull people willing to give use novice's their time & wisdom. A great big heart felt Thank you!

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

well the lack of fuel i think can be eliminated due to it doesnt affect it if i prime the bulb which is usually still firm. but pushing the key in or running fast idle for a few does seem to help. as for air/fuel mixture i couldnt find a set screw like 4 stroke carbs have to adjust the air/fuel mixture. as for the transition circuits im not familiar with these. and the fuel lines are re-ran exactly as they came from factory. (the best i can tell) and yes the shops did duplicate the problem. even called support at evinrude to no avail. well as for stator i personally havent visually inspected it but if you advance it manually you can notice a change in rpm's (with linkage socket disconnected so that it moves seperately than throttle) also what would cause me not to have this problem on the hose but it shows on the lake? i understand the back pressure is different on motor but would water put that much back pressure on the engine to cause the retardation when in gear? im wondering is the fuel pump vacuum operated? if so could the vacuum port at the pump be not working properly? causing not enough fuel to run under load? but if so why would it run so well when cold started? then run perfectly all day until you switch the engine off. if it was electrical would the pushing key in to squirt gas directly into the intake really help? that alone makes me think its fuel related. but what would cause a fuel starvation only after the engine is warmed up? and only after switching off? i could see if i was having issues before docking such as cutting out or dying while running WOT.

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

ok lets look past the fuel tank/lines and carbs for a minute. whats below them? the intake. correct? could something be clogged up in the intake? because if i understand this correctly the electric primer (push in key) bypasses the carbs and injects directly into the intake. could the gasket between the fuel pump and engine be bad?

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

In reference to the runs till shut off---Sounds like a heat soak issue & electrical parts tend to act up when hot or cold.

With having to run the fast idle & choke it sounds like lack of fuel.

Could the shops verify/duplicate the problem?

"and it dies the instant i get above idle in forward or reverse" It should be in the transistion circuits in the carb. The carbs on my Rude: transition is feed by the idle tube & the same air bleed jet as the idle circuit. If you let it idle for 10 min after a hot soak, is there any difference? I also thought about the stator advancing & a possible broken wire.

Where do the fuel lines run. It does kinda sound like a vapor lock issue but is it getting that hot to boil the gas? Maby the exhaust cover.

I have spent many hrs on my Rude & finally found the new fuel pump leaking into the signal port. I hope to find out tuesday if that solves my problem.

Another thought, can you set the fuel tank higher then the engine when you shut it off for a few min? Is it possible the fuel is draining from the fuel line back into the tank. "lossing the prime" "Rude82 " had sugested that several posts ago as well.

"yes i have heard the same thing but when it starts not wanting to prime, the direction i hold it dont matter. i have had to take the connector off the engine end and stick it down inside the tank to ever get gas up to the bulb... that way both ends were in fuel."
Should not the hose connector be sealed when off the engine? That would tell me you have an air leak at that location...You would think you would leak fuel at that location when pumping the bulb up tight.

When I replaced the bulb hose on mine & it would sit for more then a day there would be a fuel trail from where the hose fits on the bulkhead connector, I found that when I split the old hose with a knife I put a small grove in the brass connector which would alow fuel to leak out & leave a 6" long trail on the splash well.

"81_chapparel194" is 100% correct. Although I might change "known good fuel source" to correct air fuel mixture.

I consider myself a good auto tech but 2 stroke is a whole new world for me.. Just my rambelings & thoughts.

This is a great place with many very helpfull people willing to give use novice's their time & wisdom. A great big heart felt Thank you!

Ok I think I have eliminated fuel all together. Looking at a possible spark issue now. Can anyone tell me the procedure so that I can test the stator myself. Lost a lot of trust in the dealership that charged me 300 bucks for nothing.

 

[81_chapparel194]

Re: Fuel issues. I think.

today i checked the spark gap and was getting a good hot spark on all 4. except on 2 this is what happened good spark intermittent when the spark stopped the coil was arcing from mounting bolt to the back of the coil.. just had a spark coming right out of the coil housing arcking right to the mounting bolt. both coils that were doing this was on the same side. what does this mean? i believe i should be shopping for 2 new coils..