Four Winns transom leak into bilge

[nicolef]

Hello all,

I am a first time boat owner, with little mechanical know how so I am looking for some educated opinions. I just bought a 1989 Four Winns Freedom 170 with an OMC I/O. It was in excellent condition. Had one previous owner who did routine maintenance. I took it out a handful of times with no problems, ran beautifully. My bilge did not take on any water when I got it, hadnt even pulled the plug once yet, or used the bilge pump after handful of times out on the water. Until.... I ran aground. Pretty hard. Only in mud, but was going probably 20 and was brought to a complete stop. I managed to push the boat back into deeper water and headed back to the dock. Once back it sat for about 45min-hour at the dock. When I when to start it back up, the bilge was completely filled with water, and the ski cubby was filled as well. Im assuming thats rather quick to be taking on water. I immediately turned the bilge pump on (obviously not an automatic) and it took about 5 minutes to get it decently drained. I turned it on and drove it to the loading ramp to take out of the water and inspect the damage. Even while moving it takes on water, though not as rapidly. The next day when the boat was on the trailer, I filled the bilge with a hose and determined the leak is coming from the transom at the bottom of the outdrive. I've had a few avid boaters take look at it, and they seem to believe it is not dry rot from knocking on it, and just over all condition. So heres my question. If there was no sign of leaking previously, is it still likely dry rot or is it possible the collision knocked something loose or caused something that can be fixed relatively easily, or with out breaking the bank. I attempted to tighten the transom plate bolts on the inside of the transom. This did not fix the problem.

I got a pretty good deal on the boat so Im willing to put money into repairs, but nothing crazy. I paid $3200 for the boat, and like I said, it was it in great condition when I got it. I hate to have to scrap it and not even get a summers worth of fun out of it. If the only option is major transom overhaul, I have a feeling it will cost more than is worth investing into the boat. I have some very mechanically inclinded friends, but pulling the entire outdrive and engine to reseal the transom seems like extensive work for someone who has never done it before. Are their any options for easy repairs to get through summer, or is my best bet to take it in to a marine mechanic?

I found this video on youtube of a volvo penta, but the problem is identical.

Transom Plate Leak Volvo Penta - YouTube

THANKS FOR ANY SUGGESTIONS!!
-Nicole

 

[boaterinsd]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

I welcome to iBoats. Its sounds like the seal between the hull and outdrive is the problem? And to get pics of the leak or leaks might help, is the fiberglass hull in good shape from the incident running aground? How high was the water in the boat before the pump got turned on? Like since the starter is sitting kinda low on the starboard side of the engine. I will never not have a automatic float hooked to my bildge pump.

 

[nicolef]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

I welcome to iBoats. Its sounds like the seal between the hull and outdrive is the problem? And to get pics of the leak or leaks might help, is the fiberglass hull in good shape from the incident running aground? How high was the water in the boat before the pump got turned on? Like since the starter is sitting kinda low on the starboard side of the engine. I will never not have a automatic float hooked to my bildge pump.

The hull is in perfect condition. There is not visible damage to anything on the outside of my boat after I ran aground. Even the prop looked fine and it was trimmed all the way down when I hit bottom. The bilge was pretty full, as far as exact height Im not positive, but the water was at least up to the transom plate inside of the bilge, right at the point on the transom where the botton of the outdrive would attach to the boat.

When I filled the bilge with a hose, I watched the inside of the bilge while my dad layed outside the boat under the outdrive and watched the transom so we knew exactly where the water was when it started leaking. The leaking starts as soon as the water reaches my transom plate. It got over the lip of the bottom part of the plate and my dad saw leaking on the outside immediately at bottom of outdrive and from behind the anode where it meets the transom. I removed the anode to get a better look but still cant pin point the problem, but it appears to be leaking across the whole thing, which makes me think it could be a seal?

If this is the problem, what are my options for repair? Like I said, if this is something requiring extensive repair, I guess id be looking for a more temporary repair that would get me through the summer. Then I could consider a winter project.

I will also be investing in an automatic bilge pump to replace the manual in there now.

 

[Don S]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

If the transom is getting rotten around the cutout, and you run aground like that, it can pull the transom shield away from the boat transom. Then just the weight of the drive will push the transom shield back up against the transom.
Get inside the boat and see if you can tighten the lower transom shield bolts. If you can, you found your problem.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

If this is the problem, what are my options for repair? Like I said, if this is something requiring extensive repair, I guess id be looking for a more temporary repair that would get me through the summer. Then I could consider a winter project.

Ayuh,... Welcome Aboard,.... From yer description, 'n the fact that it's an '89, I'm thinkin' yer transom is Rotten...

The only Fix, is Replacement of the rotten away wood...

Btw,.... Dry rot is just wet rot that dried out... 'n yer transom's got it...

 

[boaterinsd]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

To be safe fix it right the first time. Might be cheaper that paying to get it removed from the bottom of the lake, should things go wrong again. These guys know all to well the right answers/ fixes for safe boating. If you plan on fixing it the forum is going to be one of your best tools available. Good luck.
BTW: where u located???

 

[nicolef]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

The only problem is, after calling around I'm looking at $1000 or higher for the transom repair. $100 just to look at it and tell me the official cause of the leak, but almost all repairs point to removing outdrive, and possibly the engine. After everything is said and done it will cost me half of what I payed for the boat. It just doesnt seem worth it to invest half the value of the boat for a repair. I was wondering if there were any other options like sealing from the outside with out taking outdrive off or pulling the engine out. Honestly, I'd be happy finding a way to get use out of it for the summer, then selling it 'as is' come fall. Just a thought. I wasn't looking to invest much more into this boat than maybe $600/700.

Im located in Toledo, Ohio. Another drawback being not a lot of options for places to take it aroud town..

Another thought, my good friend is a mechanical engineer and was a shop foreman for Mercedes, so he is very mechanically enclined, but I do not think he has outdrive experience. If I enlisted his help, would we be looking at extensive work to try and repair ourselves? I have tried to look up outdrive removal and transom sealing guides but haven't quite found anything that helpful.

 

[Levinz11]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

The only problem is, after calling around I'm looking at $1000 or higher for the transom repair. $100 just to look at it and tell me the official cause of the leak, but almost all repairs point to removing outdrive, and possibly the engine. After everything is said and done it will cost me half of what I payed for the boat. It just doesnt seem worth it to invest half the value of the boat for a repair. I was wondering if there were any other options like sealing from the outside with out taking outdrive off or pulling the engine out. Honestly, I'd be happy finding a way to get use out of it for the summer, then selling it 'as is' come fall. Just a thought. I wasn't looking to invest much more into this boat than maybe $600/700.

Im located in Toledo, Ohio. Another drawback being not a lot of options for places to take it aroud town..

Another thought, my good friend is a mechanical engineer and was a shop foreman for Mercedes, so he is very mechanically enclined, but I do not think he has outdrive experience. If I enlisted his help, would we be looking at extensive work to try and repair ourselves? I have tried to look up outdrive removal and transom sealing guides but haven't quite found anything that helpful.

Try looking up "Transom Replacement". If you do it yourself you can save some $$. What had happened was...your transom was a little weak (probably a little rotted) and hitting that muddy bank exposed that fact.

You could probably get away with some easy fixes like a crap load of 5200 all around the transom plate...but that just ain't safe for you or whoever is in that boat. You gotta remember the forces involved. The full weight of the boat and all the power of the engine is placed on a very small area...if it breaks badly water will be coming in faster than your bilge pump can pump it out.

 

[aldena]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

I'm in the same "boat", so to speak. Does anyone know if it's possible to fix this without removing the engine?

 

[Bulbash]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

I would check your U-Joint bellow first. It is possible that it cracked and started taking lots of water. Pull your drive offand check the bellows. As for rot the only way to check for rot is to drill a small holeat the botom of the transom near the drive, if the shavings are dark you need a new transom ( got mine done for $1300). But to have a bad leak like that your transom must be rotten completly.

 

[Jammer864]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

Your former shop foreman friendshould be able to check the bellows, remove the drive and engine, and probably could redo the transom if needed too. Its not rocket science, just takes time. Search transom replacement on here to see whats involved.

 

[Bulbash]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

I had a really badly rotted transom, but there was not much water leaking. if it rotted to the point where water leaks that fast your drive would fall off if you start driving the boat...

 

[nicolef]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

Yeah, I truly do not feel my major problem is a rotted transom. The previous own never stored the boat in the water. It was always dry docked. Even if there is rot, I believe it is minimal, and although being soft may have caused some give, I do not believe thats reason for the rapid water intake. I feel a seal has to have been broken.

If it was my bellows, would it make sense for the leak to start before the water line has even hit them? I may very well be wrong, but the diagrams ive seen show the bellows sitting up higher than the water line where the leaking actually begins. It gets to the transom plate...so the very lowest part the outdrive would enter through the transom. Aren't the bellows up a little higher?

 

[Levinz11]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

Yeah, I truly do not feel my major problem is a rotted transom. The previous own never stored the boat in the water. It was always dry docked. Even if there is rot, I believe it is minimal, and although being soft may have caused some give, I do not believe thats reason for the rapid water intake. I feel a seal has to have been broken.

If it was my bellows, would it make sense for the leak to start before the water line has even hit them? I may very well be wrong, but the diagrams ive seen show the bellows sitting up higher than the water line where the leaking actually begins. It gets to the transom plate...so the very lowest part the outdrive would enter through the transom. Aren't the bellows up a little higher?

The bellows are completely submerged while the boat is in the water. In fact on my boat the only part of the entire outdrive assembly above the water line is the stamped "OMC" letters. Taking a few core samples is really the only way to know. Take them from the inside close to the transom plate. If the wood comes out looking good, just fill the holes with 5200.

Post some pics of the transom.

 

[nicolef]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

The bellows are completely submerged while the boat is in the water. In fact on my boat the only part of the entire outdrive assembly above the water line is the stamped "OMC" letters. Taking a few core samples is really the only way to know. Take them from the inside close to the transom plate. If the wood comes out looking good, just fill the holes with 5200.

Post some pics of the transom.

I will definitely take some pics today and post them. But I am not submerging my boat in the water when Im testing for the leak. I have it on the trailer in my driveway and I am filling the bilge with water from my hose. Ive watched from the inside of the bilge, and as soon as it hits that transom plate and clears the lip towards the outdrive, the leaking begins on the outside of the boat. It seems as if when I hit, my outdrive was forced up which broke the seal?

 

[Jammer864]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

If the drive was forced up and broke the seal, you still need to remove the engine and drive to fix it. The cheapskate route would be to take a few core samples of the transom. If they are ok, silicone seal the transom plate from the outside, run it this summer, and sell it this fall "as is".

 

[Jammer864]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

Not saying you wont have drive alignment problems, etc from the offset drive, but hopefully it will get you thru a few outings and then you can get rid of it.

 

[nicolef]

Re: Four Winns transom leak into bilge

Well, I found my problem. I have good news and bad news. Bad news is, it required pulling the engine and the outdrive. Good news is, if you are mechanically inclined at all, it is really not a tough job. It took probably about an hour or two to pull the engine, and after that was done, about 30 minutes to get everything stablized and supported and pull the outdrive. Even better news, once I got a good look at the transom, I am happy and thankful to report rot was not problem. Infact the transom over all is in relatively good shape and tested to very solid. My probelm was when I ran aground, it had pulled the outdrive away enough to loosen the transom plate bolts and all for quite a bit of debri and small rocks to collect along the transom seal, also, although not visibly damaged, im assuming compromised the quality of my transom seal.

So, as it sits in my garage with engine pulled and outdrive removed, I order a new transom seal kil. Cost me about $90 total with shipping. I also bought some 3M 5200 Sealant. Ill be putting her back together this week once parts arrive.

Does anyone have any suggestions as far as reassembling. I planned on replacing transom seal and all other components included in the kit. Then cleaning the outside of transom where outdrive sandwiches to the boat and putting a coat of the sealant as a preventative caution. My friend also got some caulk from his buddy who owns a marine shop and he suggest we use that on the outside. Also the sealant says it needs to cure for 7 days... is this a solid Do Not put the boat in the water for 7 days or is there a little give with that? I plan on doing the repair Wednesday evening, and would like to get my boat out on the water Sunday for the memorial day weekend. Thoughts?