Forward Bilge/Gas Smell

[muskyfins]

I recently purchased a 1995 Rinker Fiesta Vee 265. It has a leaky fuel pump (which is about to be replaced this weekend). The gasoline smell in the cabin is very bad. I know there is a forward bilge pump under the stairs, but how big is the forward bilge? Is it connected to the main bilge? I rinsed the main bilge with water and she's fairly dry, but the cabin odor persists. How can I rinse the forward bilge? Does anyone have a digram of the structure of the boat?

As always-thanks to everyone in advance.

 

[smokeonthewater]

pick up your carpet in the cabin and you should find hatches to access the bilge... water and dawn dish soap are your friends

Make sure you install a MARINE fuel pump... gas should never leak into the bilge.... a marine pump will have a hose to the intake such that if the fuel pump diaphragm ruptures all leaking gas goes into the engine, usually flooding and stalling it thus preventing the dangerous situation you had...

I'm not saying your boat didn't HAVE a marine pump or that there is no way a marine pump could ever leak into the bilge but it would be unlikely.

 

[tpenfield]

Yea, I doubt anyone would have a diagram of the boat and bilges, but maybe. You can easily check these things out yourself. Best to get rid of the fumes before using the boat.

 

[alldodge]

Most times you will find access at the base of the stairs under the carpet

 

[Bayou Dave]

Have you tried contacting Rinker for a diagram? Randy Rinker may be of help. rrinker@Nauticglobalgroup.com

 

[muskyfins]

Spent a lot of time this weekend getting her ready for winter. (already been in the single digits several nights here). I found the forward bilge pump under the stairs and the hatch below the table mount in the cabin. When i add water to the hatch it runs down to the pump area and stops. I had to pump it out with a hand extractor pump. (don't want to run electric bilge pump to pump out gasoline) I rinsed like this several times including once or twice with some bilge cleaner. What I can't figure out is how the gasoline got in there in the first place? It doesn't appear that the two bilges have any connecting paths between them. The boat would basically need to be sunk to get enough water from the main bilge to spill into the cabin and run into the forward bilge. Or am I missing some way they are connected to each other? I called the previous owner and he was fairly honest about knowing there was gas in the forward bilge but claims not to know how it got there. I asked if he stored some gas in the cabin and it spilled, he says "no".

There is a "mouse hole" from the main bilge that goes under the aft cabin are where water from the main bilge can run into. Where does this lead? I was able to put 6" of water in the main bilge to rinse, so it can't go far. Does anybody know the structure or any way to get gasoline from the main bilge to the forward bilge?

Thanks to everyone for their help and support.

 

[muskyfins]

pick up your carpet in the cabin and you should find hatches to access the bilge... water and dawn dish soap are your friends

Make sure you install a MARINE fuel pump... gas should never leak into the bilge.... a marine pump will have a hose to the intake such that if the fuel pump diaphragm ruptures all leaking gas goes into the engine, usually flooding and stalling it thus preventing the dangerous situation you had...

I'm not saying your boat didn't HAVE a marine pump or that there is no way a marine pump could ever leak into the bilge but it would be unlikely.

The pump certainly appeared to be from the factory. And the new Sierra pump was exactly the same (without hose to anywhere). Not that it would have mattered-fuel was leaking from the body of the pump. It was in bad shape. But the new one was installed and run and no leaks anywhere, so that part is solved. Now I just need to confirm how the gas into the forward bilge and prevent it form happening again.

 

[tpenfield]

A few things to consider and investigate further . . .

Usually there is tubing that connects the forward bilge(s) to the main bigger in the stern. So a few inches of water in the main bilge can show up in the forward bilge. Additionally, if the boat tilts forward, then water can go forward through the tube(s).

As far as the fuel smell, if you have a leak in the fuel tank, that could be migrating into the forward bilge in a similar way to any water that may be going forward. You may want to investigate if you have a fuel leak of if the tank has developed a leak.

 

[frantically relaxing]

Our little Sea Ray has a forward bilge, its main purpose is to catch any floor water that finds it's way to the steps or below. The first step has a drain that runs right to the bilge. A small pump keeps the bilge empty. There is no water-path from the engine room to the front bilge.

However, there IS a "fume" path, pretty much in most boats I would think, which is the open space along the sides of the hull, which accommodates wiring and such. While water may not find its way from back to front, fuel fumes certainly will.

The first time I filled our SkipperLiner with gas, I found out the hard way the starboard 78 gallon tank had a hole 9" up. The tank is 24" tall, and all the gas above 9" ended up in my bilge! I hand-pumped it all out, and what I used to clean up was Simple Green. I've never really used it much, but a couple of strong washdowns and rinses completely removed the fuel smell. I suppose Dawn will work, but a little too sudsy for me, no suds with Simple Green...

You might try a complete bilge wash, followed by spraying all the bare fiberglass (and anything else a little water won't hurt) you can access everywhere in the boat with a weak solution of Simple Green and water. Also, get a fan that moves some air, put it down in front and aim it from the cabin back, let it run for a couple of days...

 

[ejbpesca]

Not sure about your size boat but I have cleaned my bilge nicely by running fresh water (several gallons) and a whole bottle of Dawn into it, take a cruise in some chop and poof..clean bilge once drained and rinsed. If after that you have fuel smell, something else may be leaking fuel. One boat I had was cursed with fuel smell. It turned out to be a pin hole leak in the welded aluminum fuel tank that was replaced with a plastic one.

 

[Grub54891]

On mine it was the fuel filler and vent hoses that were bad. No visable leak but they were old and had weatherchecking of sorts. No wet areas but once replaced the smell was to.

 

[muskyfins]

A few things to consider and investigate further . . .

Usually there is tubing that connects the forward bilge(s) to the main bigger in the stern. So a few inches of water in the main bilge can show up in the forward bilge. Additionally, if the boat tilts forward, then water can go forward through the tube(s).

As far as the fuel smell, if you have a leak in the fuel tank, that could be migrating into the forward bilge in a similar way to any water that may be going forward. You may want to investigate if you have a fuel leak of if the tank has developed a leak.

This is a little disconcerting, but seems like the most plausible explanation of how the gasoline got into the forward bilge. (there was definitely gasoline in the forward bilge-which is where the fumes came from)

I haven't found any passage ways yet but, I received a response form Rinker boats which seems to confirm that there is some sort of passage way that in the 90's was left open. Sometime later, they started glassing in to seal it against this exact problem. (anything in the main bilge can end up in the cabin) I just wonder how high the water level has to be in the engine compartment to start to flow INTO the forward bilge?

I will use both Dawn dish soap and simple green in the spring as she's put to bed for the winter. excellent suggestions. I forgot all about simple green. That stuff is pretty amazing.

As for the fumes, part of my job requires me to design systems to handle corrosive fumes. I can grab a pressure blower from the shop and get plenty of air through there to eliminate the fumes themselves, but I really need to abate the source of them. Hopefully this was a one time event but I still wonder how it happened so I can prevent it? (it was before i purchased the boat, so anything is possible)

 

[muskyfins]

A little more details

Below is a sketch of the cross section of my hull. The elevations are roughly to scale. (autocad)

The forward bilge holds liquid, so there is no passage at the bottom if in fact the gas tank were leaking. Except possibly around the sides, but the liquid level would have to be very high. And it should have flowed backwards into the engine compartment.

Same for liquid in the engine compartment. If there is a passage at the top of the forward bilge, the elevation of liquid in the engine compartment would have to be around 24"-30" deep or more than 1/2 way up the block. I suppose this might have happened but that's a lot of water. And weight. Could the PO be this dumb?

There is a small drain at the bottom of the first stair (outside the bulkhead) Could this lead to the forward bilge? How did gasoline get up there? If it was from the engine compartment, the boat would have been under water. I see no signs to indicate there was ever this much water in the boat.

I absolutely hate not being able to figure something out, but the most plausible explanation is very high liquid depth in the engine compartment enough to overflow into the forward bilge. I guess this is somewhat corroborated by Rinker's explanation of a passage way between the two. But at the top of that bulkhead area.

That's a lot of water in that boat. Something on the range of 650 gallons or 5500 pounds. Doesn't add up. Would she still even float?

 

[bobdec]

Your drawing is not as exact as your signature pic. Notice that on the trailer and possibly when decelerating on the water the front bilge is lower than the stern. If there is any path between the two, fluid may flow aft to forward. Maybe a channel under the tank ? Some boats actually have a forward drain plug to allow draining the forward bilge when out of the water. However with a path the opposite will occur, when digging in to get on plane the water will flow from forward to aft. On my old 26 cruiser that's how I drained all the water (if any) the front pump left there. Held the back end down for a while till the flow from the front stopped.