Force Question

[Bill F.]

Greetings. First time poster. I need some advice. I am shopping for a fishing boat after selling my 4 Winns Ski boat which was I/O (kids grew up so dad wants to fish now!). I am looking at a nice boat with later 90's vintage Force 120HP engine. This engine has been recently serviced with new impeller kit and fuel pump kit plus tune-up. Some friends are telling me to stay away from Force engines, that they are low end Mercury motors and are problematic. The mechanic that has worked on my 4 Winns for last 5 years told me the later 90s Force engines are essentially Mercury motors and not to worry if it has been well cared for. Comments please??

Also, if the engine has spent time in the ocean, does that influence the decision if it has been flushed out well after each use?
Thanks guys!
Bill

 

[roscoe]

Re: Force Question

BTDT, I might be tempted, but your info about saltwater use, makes me say no.

There are lots of boats on the market, keep looking.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Force Question

if you religously stay on top of your anodes, lubricate every other tuesday, and don't let the boat sit up for too long then I don't think saltwater is such a big problem. My boat lives in saltwater. It would probably die from shock if I ever put it in freshwater. Galvanic corrosion was never a problem until I parked it under a mango tree for 18 months. rainwater dripping off mango was very acidic and ate up the swivels. It was like saltwater on steroids.

I think that by late 90's mercury had fixed their electrical problems with stator & ignition. So the durability concern should boil down to reed valves. To my knowledge mercury never went back to metal reeds after '92 and I would expect that the problem with composites cracking plagues mercury force until they day die (or, more accurately, self destruct when the powerhead runs lean).

Another poster indicated that he improved his gas mileage and got a better power curve with boyensen reeds. They only run $100ish per set. If I had a merc force then I would make the reeds a non issue by throwing in new boyensens every three years. Roscoe can probably offer better knowledge and insight on this.

I would say that if the price is right and the motor is in good shape ... then why not? You can buy three forces for the price of one johnny. If you care for it then it should never break. If you do your own work then it will also be much cheaper to maintain. You can spend the money on some really cool fishing gear instead. Even if it does break then throw it away and buy another.

 

[johnson1989]

Re: Force Question

I am with Roscoe on this one.

Both things you said above give it a No. First of all it is a Force, they have had a bad rep, parts are getting harder to find. Second it was a salt water motor. He can tell you he flushed it good but you never know.
Look for a late 80's Early 90's Rude/Johnny or Merc. You will thank yourself down the road.

If the price is amazingly cheap you could gamble on it but if its only a bit cheaper keep looking. Just my 2 cents.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Force Question

My main reason for staying away from it is....

if you do your own service and repairs, ok

if you are going to pay someone to take care of it, forget it.

You will go broke with a motor if you pay someone to tinker with and upgrade it.

Since you didn't service your 4 Winns yourself, I assume you are not a backyard mechanic that likes to tinker.

I sold my last Force 6 months ago, and even though it was a good engine, I feel better now.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Force Question

Johnson - you sound like my neighbor used to. At first he never hid his dislike of Force and was constantly telling me how many more problems I would have than him. Then one day he got towed home when his merc outboard blew. So he bought another boat and a year later he limped home on his kicker when the inboard died. Then he bought a vee hull with johnny. Two years later he was towed home again when the automix oiler thing gave out. The he bought another cruiser with inboard. And he got towed home again when the saltwater ate through his manifold. He talked about blocking off transom and going with outboards but ultimately bought another inboard because it was cheap. It has been eight months now. Maybe this time he won't have to paddle home. He always complains about the $300-$700 bills for spring maintenance while I always complain about the cost of gas and canvas. He is on his fifth boat now and I'm still on my old trophy CC. It has never failed to start and never been towed home. I even ran into the sanibel causeway once and had a fullgrown porpoise dive into the bow (bent hell out of railing). No big - the boat shook it off and kept running. He spends thousands per year feeding his fishing habit and I spend $50 every spring.

He used to sound like you. Not anymore. These days there is a hint of jealously that my old chrysler/force turned out to be both the cheapest and most reliable boat on the canal. So anyway - curb your prejudice. If you can't then direct it where it belongs - at mercury for fubar'ing a good engine.

by the same token - roscoe is right. if you aren't going to do your own work then forget it. All of the mechanics with senoirity will pass on force and your engine will end up being serviced by the high school kid earning part-time money. You'll pay max dollar for min quality.

 

[Bill F.]

Re: Force Question

My main reason for staying away from it is....

if you do your own service and repairs, ok

if you are going to pay someone to take care of it, forget it.

Thanks all for the comments. I actually did most of the maintenance on my I/O. It was essentially a chevy engine and easy to keep up. When it came to the outdrive, other than changing out the impeller and oil, I had it serviced by a pro. I have not owned an outboard for years, but prefer to buy the manual and do as much work on it myself as I possibly can.

Regarding the use of this engine in the ocean, I haven't spoke to the owner yet about this. I just through the question out for comments.
Thanks again,
Bill

 

[valencehsift]

Re: Force Question

I have a 1989 Force 150. I have only had it about a month but everything has been great so far. The only disappointment I have is that it has a little less power then Merc. but I might have a prop issue right now that I am working on. I work on the motor myself, use the forum to assist with any questions and saved a lot of money doing it and having fun. If it's a good deal take it.



It works great for me

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Force Question

I bought an 88 Force 125 that was used at the Jersey shore. The previous owner maintained it fairly well, and surprisingly the only corrosion problem I have is the engine clamp has flaked off about 1/8 inch and the kingpin is stiff, making for hard steering. Engine starts fine, has plenty of power, and idles well if I change the plugs at the beginning of the season. Tilt and trim is in good condition. 21 foot boat and engine with all equipment and canvas for 3,800. All in all, less problems than I anticipated from a salt water engine. Cleats were corroded; replaced them with stainless. 90 bucks. That and gas is what I put into it in two years.

 

[pasquipa]

Re: Force Question

I have a 1992 Bayliner Trophy 2000 with a 150 HP Force. This is my third season with this boat/motor. As far as I know, it's seen fresh water only. I'm the second owner. First owner kept the boat/motor meticulously clean and maintained. I do the same. Other than the normal winterization process, I have not had to do anything else. I install fresh plugs every spring and I mix the proper oil/gas and go on my way. I guess with Force, you either love them or hate them. I love mine. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones (?).

 

[millercm1]

Re: Force Question

I'm on my 3rd year with my 90 Force 150hp, so far... I have had the starter rebuilt the first year. Then I replaced the starter the second year...as well as the tilt/trim motor. This year I have had the entire electrical system off troubleshooting what ended up as the Stator malfunctioning. Ran great for 5 hours... but again I find myself trying to figure out what's wrong with it now.

Good thing I like to work on motors... I have tried to take it in several times but no marina wants to work on it. It is always left to last... usually 3-4 weeks until someone even looks at it and then parts are hard to find.

I won't buy another Force.
But I will do my best to fix and enjoy the one I have for as long as I can!

If you go ahead with it.... MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!!!

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Force Question

....I have to buy into RRitts point further up about the nay-sayers. I think it has a lot to do with the history of the motor and its maintenance. Well over 50% of the issue. It reminds me of people gabbing about German built cache' cars (BMW/Audi/Mercedes, etc)....which from an electronic side (and hence reliability point of view) are some of the very worst vehicles on the road. Yet some people are sure they somehow rule.
Read the other motor forums, Johnson, Merc, Evinrude, yada, yada....they all have problems and they are all workin' it out. Maybe theirs is the best on the block....or maybe a lot of those motors had the crap run out of them.
The Force design isn't archaic or off the map. Its a reasonable motor. Its more advanced than most motors ever made in the 60's or 70's...yet somehow people got out on the water with those motors and somehow made it to the other shore.
Check it out tho'. Compression test it, check the bottom end. Get someone to go over it.
Good Luck