Force Carb Rebuild Needles too long

[executivos1]

Hi, I have a 1987 Force 125...

We went to rebuild the carbs...I'm told the kit I needed is fk10103-2. I bought 2 of those and we went to work.

The problem is that each kit came with 2 needles, and both of them were a little 2 long. (or longer than the ones that were in my carbs)

We kept one of the old needles in, the other float/needle connection wasn't working (when turned upside down and blown on) so we simply grinded the back of the needle down until it fit.

Took the boat out on the water and it won't get about 8 mph, any more throttle and it goes to stall (too much fuel) Also if going slow AT ALL, it would stall...in neutral it would stall...trying to change from forward to reverse it would stall which meant trying to dock and trailer the boat at uncomfortable speeds.

I took it to a dealer and he said that the top carb (the one using the old needle) was flooding but didn't say anything (and was having trouble locating parts). I took the boat home and we grinded the other new needle down and put it in. I took the boat out again and now it's running better---top speed about 20 mph, but more importantly it's running pretty well at low speeds and doesn't stall. If I give it more gas above 20mph it does the same thing as before....starts to stall out too rich

Anyway, I should be getting around 35+ or at least be able to reach wot. Has anyone else had to grind down their needles? Am I missing something? it has been verified by mercury that I'm using the right part kit.

btw, i have new spark plugs, my compression is 140 across the board and the dealer says that my ignition is all great.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Force Carb Rebuild Needles too long

I have the same problem with the same motor. The carbs were just rebuilt by a dealer prior to my getting this boat. It was doing the same thing, no RPM under load and dumping fuel on the top carb. It would overflow the bowl even while sitting at times, other times run fine. The floats seen OK and the new needles are too long. I was wondering if they made a change to add seating pressure or if there was a different float that should have also been used?

The needle seats on these carbs are pressed in, so they don't look like they can be changed, so the float has to be the only other option. Unless all of those kits contain the wrong needles? I also have two other parts motors here, both have the older short needles, but both sets of carbs are in poor shape and leaking otherwise they'd be on this motor for now. Til I figure out what the deal is.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force Carb Rebuild Needles too long

Are the needles solid or have rubber on the tip? Did you soak the carbs in cleaner or carb soak? What did you use on them? If you soaked them there might be a problem with the needle seat.
If the needles are ok then use them instead of the new ones.
If you need a set of carbs I have a pair off a 87/125 They have been setting for years and need cleaning but they were working when the motor lost a piston and the owner let it set for 17 years before I got it.Jerry

 

[executivos1]

Re: Force Carb Rebuild Needles too long

we soaked the carbs...The old needles either didn't have a rubber tip or it wore off. the new needles have rubber tips.

we're going to do some more work on it today.

also of the two needles in each package, one of them had a little metal hook kinda thing on the back of it...I still have those, not grinded down. I can try to find new seats, but I don't think that changes the needle too long problem.

as far as the old needles they don't really work...with the new "custom" modified ones, it at least works at slow speeds without dying in idle or changing directions etc, which as I said made it REALLY hard to dock or trailer because I had to do it at higher than comfortable speeds.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force Carb Rebuild Needles too long

If your old needles didn't have rubber and the new does then the seat has an O-ring in it.If you soaked the carb the O-ring could be damaged.Commercial soaks ruin everthing but metal(o-rings,plastic,paint etc)
I believe the seats are pressed in and you probably cant remove them.Jerry

 

[executivos1]

Re: Force Carb Rebuild Needles too long

I was talking with another dealer today (one that really new all about force engines and the various changes) and he was telling me that there was no gasket on my seat, and that I should be looking elsewhere.

Based on the problem (running great until about 20 mph then dying out) he thought it was not enough fuel or not enough spark. The spark plugs were 1 month old and then I just put in brand new ones today (buhx)

Still working on it....I got some parts for the fuel pump today and I ordered new floats. Any other suggestions?

 

[clanton]

Re: Force Carb Rebuild Needles too long

Like JJ05 said the rubber seal in the carb body is ruined. To use the rubber tipped needle you have to change the brass seat. There was a kit that had needle and seat, matched set. Once you install the new seat with rubber tipped needle and set the floats, it will run almost as good as a Johnson.

 

[clanton]

Re: Force Carb Rebuild Needles too long

Shop in N. Ft. Myers fl, will have the parts and/or numbers 239 997 9880. Not sure about the phone number.