Force 85 1987 bayliner capri

Drymite

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Hey there I recently bought a 1987 bayliner capri bow-rider with a 85 hp force.. i done the impeller housing gasket and changed the impeller .i also changed all 3 coils . I got the engine running. Everything is good water coming out the top the thermostat is working. But Im having a idling issue i can get the engine to turn on easy in the fast idle position. But i cant get it to run in neutral regular idle. As soon i bring the lever back more then half way it turns off. I noticed back when i was wrenching on it before that the throttle linkage was disconnected at the end so i connected it. Im not sure where exactly the nut should sit but its attached. I tried following a youtube video of how to do carb adjustments by frank acampora and i followed it pretty well... i noticed when i was all the way forward on the throttle in fast idling position that i can make the engine rev higher when i push the throttle screw or w.e its called from the engine . Im guessing thats not supposed to happen since the lever is all the forward.....
how can i get the engine to run in regular idle so i can adjust the carbs and finally take it out . Everytime i let it run for more then 10-15 mins i pull back the lever it dies instantly.

Any help would be appreciated I apologize for the long write up.
 

jerryjerry05

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Set the idle up. The towershaft , towards the bottom is a slotted screw and a 7/16 nut. Unhook the linkage. Loosen the nut and turn the screw in. This increases the rpms. It kinda sounds like it's sucking air???? Start the motor, can of starting fluid, spray the fluid around the intake side of the motor. That includes the area under the coils and below the carbs. If this makes a difference in the way it runs??? Then its sucking air. Lots of times the 3 port covers, the gaskets go bad and make it run bad at an idle.
 

Drymite

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Set the idle up. The towershaft , towards the bottom is a slotted screw and a 7/16 nut. Unhook the linkage. Loosen the nut and turn the screw in. This increases the rpms. It kinda sounds like it's sucking air???? Start the motor, can of starting fluid, spray the fluid around the intake side of the motor. That includes the area under the coils and below the carbs. If this makes a difference in the way it runs??? Then its sucking air. Lots of times the 3 port covers, the gaskets go bad and make it run bad at an idle.
I was able to get in idle after adjust the screw i barely had to adjust it. Side question if you dont mind i was testing the boat in the bucket and i was able to put it in gear and rev it high. But whenni took it to the lake and put it in the water it wouldnt start at all. It would release back pressure on close to start up. Then my battery got weak. Im charging the battery now and. Gonna try again tmrw with a full battery but if its not turning on in the water do i need to increase the idle a bit more since theres more pressure from the lake or what should i do
 

jerryjerry05

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Does the boat have a tachometer?
You using the choke in the water?
Sometimes it's necessary to use or not use the choke.
One of my motors 1988/85 Didn't want to start unless the motor was tilted all the way up?????
You need to experiment to see what works for you?

Idle in a bucket, about1200 in gear in the water 800
 

The Force power

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I was able to get in idle after adjust the screw i barely had to adjust it. Side question if you dont mind i was testing the boat in the bucket and i was able to put it in gear and rev it high. But whenni took it to the lake and put it in the water it wouldnt start at all. It would release back pressure on close to start up. Then my battery got weak. Im charging the battery now and. Gonna try again tmrw with a full battery but if its not turning on in the water do i need to increase the idle a bit more since theres more pressure from the lake or what should i do
Have your battery tested after its charged (a "full" battery 12+ volts) does not always mean its good to produce cranking-amps.
a weak battery and/or Starter will not make the Flywheel spin fast enough to produce enough electricity to create spark.

In addition to Jerry's advise (a tachometer is a must!/even if its a handheld one)
Here's the old post (from the late Frank) that I have printed out & live by;

1.Disconnect the ball link to the carb cam at the timing tower. Disconnecting at the cam risks bending the cam. Move the cam away from the carb roller.
2. Loosen the screw(s) on the aluminum tie bar and let all carbs close completely, then tighten again.
3. Set the cam so that the scribed line is pointing directly at the black roller on the carb lever. If the cam has two closely spaced lines, set the black roller directly between them.
4. The black roller is held with an offset screw and nut. Loosen the nut and turn the screw until the black roller JUST touches the cam. Tighten the nut and re-attach the ball link maintaining the scribed line at the roller.
5. Adjust the ball link so that at full throttle the bottom carb butterfly opens substantially horizontally. Adjust the aluminum tie bar so all carb butterflies open equally at full throttle. They need not be perfect but should be rather close to horizontal for best performance.
6. Adjust timing to 28 degrees before top dead center at full throttle. ( STATIC TIMING / CRANKING SPEED )
7. Adjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM in the water in forward gear. Do this with the screw on the bottom of the timing tower. Loosen the locknut and adjust. Screwing in increases idle speed. Do this in small increments and let the engine rev and adjust itself before the next adjustment. A little goes a long way here. When correct, tighten the nut. Note that the scribed line on the roller will now be (usually) below the black roller a bit.
8. NOW we adjust the mixture on the carbs. Set all low speed needles to about 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Do not force as this will damage either the needles or the seats.
8A. With the engine idling in neutral, turn each the needles in equally about 1/8 turn at a time. Give the engine a couple of seconds between each adjustment to stabilize. Adjust until the engine either "sags" or stalls. Note this setting.
8B. Now go the opposite direction. Adjust until the engine runs rough, burbles, or stalls. Note this setting.
8C. Set all needles to the average between the two settings: That is, for example, if it stalled at 3/4 turn out and burbled at 1 1/4 out then set all needles to 1 turn out.
8D. Readjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM.
9. Take the boat out on the water and do a "hole shot"--Full throttle acceleration from a stop. If the engine "sags" then recovers and picks-up it is too lean. Open the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates with no hesitation.
If the engine sputters or coughs or burbles, then clears itself and accelerates, it is too rich. Close the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates smoothly.

10. I can NOT stress this enough! NEVER set the low speed needles less that 1 turns out no matter how poor the idle or acceleration. To do so will run the engine too lean and detonation and melted pistons at or near full throttle operation will result.
 

Drymite

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I figured out my issue its a compression issue cylinder 1 was only at 60 psi while 2-3 are at 110-115 . I took off the top end and i instantly seen the cylinder 1 is cracked with a hair line crack going down like 30% of the cylinder... im guessing from it over heating once should i try welding the block? Where can i find a top end if not repairable. It still hold 60 psi cracked like that. Also is there any video or can someone tell me how to adjust the throttle linkage cable the throttle extends way past forward then it should.
 

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Nordin

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The crack is in the casting and the sleeve maybe able to move.
As jerryjerry says, no way to repair that issue.
That is my opinion too.
 

Jiggz

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Unfortunately, this motor is done and time to move on to get another power head or even a whole entire unit. If you can find the same type and year model much better that gives you a lot of spare parts from this old one.
 

Drymite

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Thanks for the feedback i figured even tho i could weld it wouldnt last long. I found a Chrysler 85 running. Doesn't have controls. Can i swap the controls from my force 85.
 

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Drymite

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My current force is this one
 

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Nordin

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Yes, will fit right on.
These engines are the same, maybe some different (ignition parts).
Your Force has the 1 piece LU unit and the Chrysler has the older 2 piece unit.
They are not swapable but you can put the Chrysler power head to the Force midleg/LU
Keep your Force as a spare for the Chrysler.
Good luck.
 

Drymite

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I have swapped the chrysler outboard on to my boat and i wired everything close to the diagram it cranks but im not getting spark... . I believe i have the Motorola cd unit... if the unit is bad is there a "updated" way of getting it to fire
 

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Nordin

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CDI Electronics has a aftermarket CD box for the Motorola box.
Part# 115-3301, but it is expensive, about 400 dollars.
I suggest you to troubleshoot the ignition system first.
Outboardignitiondotcom has the troubleshoot chart.
The system is quit simple, CD box, distributor with points or a preamp and an ignition coil.
Thats all.
If the distributor has points you can convert the system to regular auto style with points and condenser and remove the CD box.
If you convert to auto style system then you have to change the spark plugs from surface gap style to regular plugs with a bent electrode.
 

Drymite

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Yes I believe so i have the points distributor thers only one nut on the side of it not 2 also i reading mixed posts is the ignition coil supposed to be 12v or 7v there something i read about the points barely lasting with a 12v coils.
 

Nordin

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Check the grounding of the distributor, you have to have a wire from the distributor bracket down to the distributor housing.
There are grease in the distributor swivel which insulate.
Check for spark if you connect a spark plug right on the ignition coil.
If you then get spark the distributor cap is the culprit.
 

Drymite

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Check the grounding of the distributor, you have to have a wire from the distributor bracket down to the distributor housing.
There are grease in the distributor swivel which insulate.
Check for spark if you connect a spark plug right on the ignition coil.
If you then get spark the distributor cap is the culprit.
So i checked the distributor the points where corroded. I filled it down slighty and i regapped the points too .014.
I did the timing following franks tutorial.. my last issue is that there is no power going to the blue ignition wire.. i tested at the ignition switch theres no power to the blue wire. Red reads 12v i checked at the engine Terminal again no power. The battery is fully charged the starter engages and spins with lots of power. Choke works.. the wiring harness seems fine. What can cause the no voltage on blue ign wire.
 

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Drymite

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Update i was able to get power to igniton. I did everything still doesnt seem to want to turn on. Is there a a gap spec on the plugs? .
 

Nordin

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If no power at blue wire but power at red wire you have a bad keyswitch.
The gap at the spark plugs should be 0,025-0,028 in (0,7 mm).
have you tried to check for spark at the ignition coil as I suggested in an earlier post?
Put a HT wire in the coil output and hold the end about 1/4 in from the block and then crank it over or open and close the points by hand with the keyswitch in RUN position.
If everything is okey it should spark. If it spark then the distributor is the culprit.
 
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