Force 120hp won't start

Maus01

Seaman
Joined
Aug 15, 2023
Messages
65
Dva result blue to blue white 400v connected and disconnected
Red to red White 70v connected and disconnected.
Output to coils... Cil 1 223
Cil 2 299
Cil 3 292
Cil 4 318
Resistance coils is about 950 ohm thats a little low i think
Thats between groun and coil output
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,819
It should fire right up with fuel in the cylinders.-----Checked the flywheel key ?---Torqued flywheel nut to the correct value ?----I would say you need to do some more trouble shooting.----Something really simple is the issue.----Just my opinion as I can not see or touch this motor.
 

Maus01

Seaman
Joined
Aug 15, 2023
Messages
65
Hmmm tnx. Flywheel key is good. Flywheel also. Put a new starter on it. So it cranks good. What about the spark plugs?
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
Yes you move the remote handle all the way and that os woot. bypass the neutral switch take out the plugs ground the cables and read the timing it should he 28. That is the cranking timing. If you don't have a fuel problem you wither have a conpressionproblem or a spark problem. Stator and/or trigger. You have to measure the voltages and resistance using DVA adapter and check with the CDI charts for the numbers. If you sprayed and it doesn't start it's an electrical issue.
Position on the tower is on the right mark of the 3. Forgot which flywheel you have. I have the one with the 0 and the 3 marks. From right to left 28, 30 and 32 BTDC. I read somewhere that it is recommended to set timing lower than 28BTDC but I left mine at 28. Cannot remember where.
 
Last edited:

Maus01

Seaman
Joined
Aug 15, 2023
Messages
65
Hello again. So i set 28 degrees WOT. when you push back the timing tower the lines are exactly at the roller of the carb. Put a few drops of gas in the holes of the sparkplugs. Again the engine want to start but the (New) starter disangages immediately Tried that a few times. But no start.
 

The Force power

Commander
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
2,335
Hello again. So i set 28 degrees WOT. when you push back the timing tower the lines are exactly at the roller of the carb. Put a few drops of gas in the holes of the sparkplugs. Again the engine want to start but the (New) starter disengages immediately Tried that a few times. But no start.
Starter disengages immediately? sounds like bad battery-cables/connectors/bad ground/ bad starter-relay. does the starter disengage when you jump the relay?

I'm not sure if this was send to you but when you have figured out your starter issues; I would follow the steps below carefully

1.Disconnect the ball link to the carb cam at the timing tower. Disconnecting at the cam risks bending the cam. Move the cam away from the carb roller.
2. Loosen the screw(s) on the aluminum tie bar and let all carbs close completely, then tighten again.
3. Set the cam so that the scribed line is pointing directly at the black roller on the carb lever. If the cam has two closely spaced lines, set the black roller directly between them.
4. The black roller is held with an offset screw and nut. Loosen the nut and turn the screw until the black roller JUST touches the cam. Tighten the nut and re-attach the ball link maintaining the scribed line at the roller.
5. Adjust the ball link so that at full throttle the bottom carb butterfly opens substantially horizontally. Adjust the aluminum tie bar so all carb butterflies open equally at full throttle. They need not be perfect but should be rather close to horizontal for best performance.
6. Adjust timing to 28 degrees before top dead center at full throttle. ( STATIC TIMING / CRANKING SPEED )
7. Adjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM in the water in forward gear. Do this with the screw on the bottom of the timing tower. Loosen the locknut and adjust. Screwing in increases idle speed. Do this in small increments and let the engine rev and adjust itself before the next adjustment. A little goes a long way here. When correct, tighten the nut. Note that the scribed line on the roller will now be (usually) below the black roller a bit.
8. NOW we adjust the mixture on the carbs. Set all low speed needles to about 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Do not force as this will damage either the needles or the seats.
8A. With the engine idling in neutral, turn each the needles in equally about 1/8 turn at a time. Give the engine a couple of seconds between each adjustment to stabilize. Adjust until the engine either "sags" or stalls. Note this setting.
8B. Now go the opposite direction. Adjust until the engine runs rough, burbles, or stalls. Note this setting.
8C. Set all needles to the average between the two settings: That is, for example, if it stalled at 3/4 turn out and burbled at 1 1/4 out then set all needles to 1 turn out.
8D. Readjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM.
9. Take the boat out on the water and do a "hole shot"--Full throttle acceleration from a stop. If the engine "sags" then recovers and picks-up it is too lean. Open the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates with no hesitation.
If the engine sputters or coughs or burbles, then clears itself and accelerates, it is too rich. Close the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates smoothly.

10. I can NOT stress this enough! NEVER set the low speed needles less that 1 turns out no matter how poor the idle or acceleration. To do so will run the engine too lean and detonation and melted pistons at or near full throttle operation will result.
 

Maus01

Seaman
Joined
Aug 15, 2023
Messages
65
I follewed that like 10 times... About the starter... When i use the ignition key or jump the relais with a thin wire it cranks... When the engine want to take over(wants to start) it stops. And the Gear on the starter retracs. Every kabel is New.. Lets say... I choke. Give half throttle and start. This happens. But when i choke gas is comming out at the back from both carbs. When i keep starting like for 1 Minute then the starter keeps tuning. And nothing happens. Only when i choke it disangages very quick
 

Nordin

Commander
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,555
Starter disengaging when engine takes over is normal and it should do that.
Your issue is that the engine do not start and run, just want to but do not.
Something is wrong with the timing/throttle tune, but I can not right know figure it out.
If you have done the link and sync by Frank A it should be right.
The thing that makes me think the link and sync is not right is that you mention that the throttle cam roller is at the two lines at the throttle cam.
Normally it should be 1/8-1/4 in above the line/lines when you try to start, see number 7. (remote control at cold start).
When you set the throttle pick up point do you pull the throttle rod off at one of the end of the rod?
How are the air/fuel screws set? 1 1/4 turn out from seated?
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
I follewed that like 10 times... About the starter... When i use the ignition key or jump the relais with a thin wire it cranks... When the engine want to take over(wants to start) it stops. And the Gear on the starter retracs. Every kabel is New.. Lets say... I choke. Give half throttle and start. This happens. But when i choke gas is comming out at the back from both carbs. When i keep starting like for 1 Minute then the starter keeps tuning. And nothing happens. Only when i choke it disangages very quick
I had gas come out of one set of carbs in the beginning. The float is either broken or out of adjustment but usually you see gas come out of different holes when you prime it. If it comes out when you have the engine on it could be the reeds but also the floats. My reeds are stainless so never an issue with those they look new.
The starter disengaging it happened to me but rarely. When I couldn't start it, there would be random times when it did that. I also changed my ignition switch, make sure it doesn't move around when you turn the key. So if you flood the engine because of the float issue it could choke or not go anymore and disangages.
Also.make sure the batteries are at full power, cables to it tight, really important.
 

Maus01

Seaman
Joined
Aug 15, 2023
Messages
65
I had gas come out of one set of carbs in the beginning. The float is either broken or out of adjustment but usually you see gas come out of different holes when you prime it. If it comes out when you have the engine on it could be the reeds but also the floats. My reeds are stainless so never an issue with those they look new.
The starter disengaging it happened to me but rarely. When I couldn't start it, there would be random times when it did that. I also changed my ignition switch, make sure it doesn't move around when you turn the key. So if you flood the engine because of the float issue it could choke or not go anymore and disangages.
Also.make sure the batteries are at full power, cables to it tight, really important.
Gas only comes out of the back. Only when choking. Primer bulb gets raily hard and then there is no gas comming out... Reeds are also stainless and look like New. They close almost completly only a real small gap
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
Gas only comes out of the back. Only when choking. Primer bulb gets raily hard and then there is no gas comming out... Reeds are also stainless and look like New. They close almost completly only a real small gap
This is probably your problem. Gas is supposed to go one way only, sacked in the cylinders. You have to figure out why.
Also a gummed up carb at the needle, bad needle and seat that is not closing 100%, timing going out for different reasons like bad key at the flywheel, coils firing badly it will cause gas to come out when you crank. Lime I said I have 2 motors so I can swap stuff and rule out things. Try to take the carbs apart and look at the needles and seats is it rubber on the seat or on the neddle. I replaced one of my needles with a complete metal one that came with the kit. No gas coming out now. There is really nothing else that can cause this. It's at the carb, unless thatlittle space in the reed does it.
 
Last edited:

Maus01

Seaman
Joined
Aug 15, 2023
Messages
65
But only when i choke.. So ive iam correct it has nothing to do with the floats. When i prime nothing happens. No leaks
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
But only when i choke.. So ive iam correct it has nothing to do with the floats. When i prime nothing happens. No leaks
Like I said I had gas coming out and the bulb was getting hard also. But if the needle seat is dirty or gummed up it spits the gas through the neck. Look to see what type of seats you have whether they have rubber in them or the needle has a rubber tip. The gas is supposed to go one way. If reeds are bad it comes back Your reeds are good so not that. If carb is defective then that's the source. Not much else can do it. I read about the timimg and coils not firing at the right time causing this. You have to check it all again. Buy some cheap carbs and try it if you have access to some?
 

Maus01

Seaman
Joined
Aug 15, 2023
Messages
65
So i ordert reeds from boyesen. Hoping that is the problem. Now waiting so cleaming the carbs again. What should the travel distance be for the floats close and open. Hope someone can help
 

Attachments

  • 1000035637.jpg
    1000035637.jpg
    4.4 MB · Views: 2
  • IMG20240528191802.jpg
    IMG20240528191802.jpg
    3.9 MB · Views: 1

Maus01

Seaman
Joined
Aug 15, 2023
Messages
65
The pin/ in the middel is not centered (both carbs) should this be a problem??
 

Attachments

  • 1000035639.jpg
    1000035639.jpg
    4.3 MB · Views: 3

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
I don't think it is supposed to be. All mine actually touch the side so don't force it in the middle
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
You have to turn it upside down and let it fall to where the main jet is located. Not touching but closest to it. And the other way parallel to the body.
What is the problem with your motor now?
 
Top