Float planes and right of way

[korygrandy]

I would assume there is some sort of federal regulation defining the right of way with Float Planes, but does anyone know if these laws tend to be specific to the geography or is it a blanket law?

I was at the lake home in Wisconsin this weekend, and we had a buddy fly down with his float plane. We did some puddle jumping with the plane since he was here. There was one particular lake where boaters just didn't give this guy the right of way.

Obviously this bonanza was equipped with nav lights but I don't think people really pay much attention to those as they are overcome with the float plane itself. Being a boater, I got to thinking how can you really tell visually that the plane is ready to take off. One would assume when the engine gets verry loud it's approaching "TAXI" and it starts moving forward in a straight line.

Common sense would say let's not race across the "lake runway" in front of a plane, but sure as heck that's what was happening. Multiple boats darted across as my friend was gaining speed to takeoff. :facepalm:

Oh and for the record..I think I found my next hobby involving fiberglass

Mods can move this to it's appropriate category...I had a tough time finding one to file this under myself.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Float planes and right of way

Most of that is going to be FAA controlled. Handbook on float planes can be found HERE. There's quite a bit there so I don't know specific answers, but I'll be reading that myself just 'cause it's interesting.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: Float planes and right of way

You sure it was a bonanza? that would be VERY unusual.
I do not hold a seaplane rating and cannot answer.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Float planes and right of way

You sure it was a bonanza? that would be VERY unusual.

Thought the same thing ... would be equally unusual to own a Cordova (I think that's the twin), but if so ... wheeee!

Got done browsing the guide ... when on uncontrolled water, USCG rules apply to the airplane as long as the floats are on the water. When not airborne the plane is considered a watercraft, not an airplane, and subject to "rules of the road" even while on a take-off or landing run. Wow

 

[bekosh]

Re: Float planes and right of way

As far as I'm concerned, the "boat" with the giant Cuisinart on the front has the right of way.

 

[korygrandy]

Re: Float planes and right of way

Thought the same thing ... would be equally unusual to own a Cordova (I think that's the twin), but if so ... wheeee!

Got done browsing the guide ... when on uncontrolled water, USCG rules apply to the airplane as long as the floats are on the water. When not airborne the plane is considered a watercraft, not an airplane, and subject to "rules of the road" even while on a take-off or landing run. Wow

Heh sorry guys...I'm not a pilot by trade. Bonanza is the "other" plane my friend has a share in. This was a 4 seater Cessna 172 on floats.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Float planes and right of way

When it is on water, it is a boat. So normal rules will apply. With that said, its fair to say a plane powering up for takeoff is going to be pretty much the least maneuverable vessel possible, so it has right of way.

Of course, if there is any accident, the airplane will lose. Assuming no fatalities, the FAA will come down hard on the pilot, even if they weren't at fault. It is their job to ensure their 'runway' is clear.

 

[korygrandy]

Re: Float planes and right of way

I guess I am trying to understand the separation of responsibility. As the Pilot, it's my understanding on these smaller lakes they will kind of circle the lake once, make there presence known and at the same time scout for an available landing within that body of water.

As a boater I'm thinking I would want to stear clear of any planes, but I know this is a much more delicate operation than operating a 115hp Mercury. I was more curious if there is some sort of law or rule for a boater to abide by say "Do not cross in front of the plane during take-off, or "stay 200' from seaplanes under power." or "maintain port side when a seaplane is near."

If there aren't any rules, this past Saturday was a prime example of why there should be. This might be more prominent in the land of 10,000 lakes, as I do see a LOT of sea planes around here but I've never stopped to think what kind of laws I should abide by as they are near me.

 

[korygrandy]

Re: Float planes and right of way

Most of that is going to be FAA controlled. Handbook on float planes can be found HERE. There's quite a bit there so I don't know specific answers, but I'll be reading that myself just 'cause it's interesting.

I guess this pretty much sums it up, the liability is heavily weighted on the pilot...I guess it makes sense as they have much more to lose:
14 CFR PART 91, SECTION 91.115
RIGHT-OF-WAY RULES:WATER
OPERATIONS
The right-of-way rules for operation on water are
similar, but not identical, to the rules governing rightof-
way between aircraft in flight.
(a) General. Each person operating an aircraft on the
water shall, insofar as possible, keep clear of all
vessels and avoid impeding their navigation, and
shall give way to any vessel or other aircraft that
is given the right-of-way by any rule of this
section.
(b) Crossing. When aircraft, or an aircraft and a vessel,
are on crossing courses, the aircraft or vessel
to the other’s right has the right-of-way.
(c) Approaching head-on. When aircraft, or an aircraft
and a vessel, are approaching head-on, or
nearly so, each shall alter its course to the right to
keep well clear.
(d) Overtaking. Each aircraft or vessel that is being
overtaken has the right-of-way, and the one overtaking
shall alter course to keep well clear.
(e) Special circumstances. When aircraft, or an aircraft
and a vessel, approach so as to involve risk
of collision, each aircraft or vessel shall proceed
with careful regard to existing circumstances,
including the limitations of the respective craft.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Float planes and right of way

I have been wondering this too. We had a plane come down just about right on top of us on the St John's River. Had I not turned around to see it landing behind me, he would have landed on top of us or at least hit us as soon as he landed. I had to quickly power up and get out of his way in a NO WAKE zone. Even after getting out of his way, he still blew past us on the river after he landed, and pulled then slowed to a stop. I wasnt sure who had the right of way, so I didnt say anything about what I thought was a stupid unsafe landing. It really does not matter who had the right of way in the end, had I not seen him and gotten out of the way, he would have hit us. So I suppose as a boater, you just need to be paying attention to everything around you. Even planes.

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Float planes and right of way

I would sort of conceder it like around here in WV where its common to have way over loaded coal trucks in daily use and I am talking 60 to 80 ton loads. You may have the right of way and you can also get squished or in the case of a plane all chopped up.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Float planes and right of way

As far as I'm concerned, the "boat" with the giant Cuisinart on the front has the right of way.

LOL - no kiddin', huh?

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Float planes and right of way

As far as I'm concerned, the "boat" with the giant Cuisinart on the front has the right of way.

I also agree! I have been on the water when the air tankers come in to scoop water and then fly off to fight wildfires around here and they always made a pass to tell boaters to get out of the way, they would come in 10 or 20 feet off the water and everyone knew the next pass was business, I don't think they ever had any problems and I know I got out of the way, but what a great day, I got front row seats!

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Float planes and right of way

I also agree! I have been on the water when the air tankers come in to scoop water and then fly off to fight wildfires around here and they always made a pass to tell boaters to get out of the way, they would come in 10 or 20 feet off the water and everyone knew the next pass was business, I don't think they ever had any problems and I know I got out of the way, but what a great day, I got front row seats!

I'm a pilot but I don't have a seaplane rating. The FAA regs regarding water operations have already been posted. I don't really know honestly. I never wanted to tangle with 200+ hp behind a spinning blade. I just let them go. Just understand that on the water planes are like they are on land, terrible at handling. They are designed to handle well in one location, in the air. On water and on land they are flopping flounders.

 

[Outsider]

Re: Float planes and right of way

I wasnt sure who had the right of way, so I didnt say anything about what I thought was a stupid unsafe landing.

An aircraft NEVER has the right of way to land on any vehicle/vessel/other aircraft, he'll eat that one every time (legally if not physically). With that said, there are pilots and boat owners who seriously need to have their stupid fixed ...

 

[woodsyfeller]

Re: Float planes and right of way

Ive always said" It doesn't matter who was right, its who was left."

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Float planes and right of way

I wasnt sure who had the right of way, so I didnt say anything about what I thought was a stupid unsafe landing.

An aircraft NEVER has the right of way to land on any vehicle/vessel/other aircraft, he'll eat that one every time (legally if not physically). With that said, there are pilots and boat owners who seriously need to have their stupid fixed ...

I don't disagree with you but I can tell you that everyone in Colorado is very well tuned to the fire danger in this state, and let me tell you when the twin engine bombers come in to load back up its like parting the Red Sea, everyone got out of the way, made me very proud to know that nobody had to say anything, everyone knew what the pilot needed and quickly gave him room to do what he needed.

As far as the smaller float planes we simply don't see them here, not sure why but I have never seen one in Colorado for the 25 years I have lived here so I can't speak to that.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Float planes and right of way

Agreed that seaplanes (most of them) have very poor control in the water, especially when not "on the step". Think about how well your boat would turn if you only had 2-flimsy 8" rudders and no prop on a pontoon, lol! The landing aircraft will usually scout the area upon landing unless a clear field of view is seen on final approach the first time. On takeoff, it's much easier for pretty much any other vessel to maneuver out of the aircraft's path, aside from possibly a sailboat/non-powered vessel. I have run side-by-side with a Lake Amphibian before during his take-off roll. I was in a bass boat and ran a few hundred yards to his starboard side and was able to keep up with him until about 40-45mph when he had more power than I did, lol.

I also questioned the OP on the Bonanza on floats, lol. That would be a sight to see! The 172 is fairly common though.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Float planes and right of way

As far as I'm concerned, the "boat" with the giant Cuisinart on the front has the right of way.

Aint that the truth. I don't need my headstone to say, "Legally, I had the right of way"...............

 

[Captain Caveman]

Re: Float planes and right of way

I'm pretty ignorant about float planes but we have a ton on my lake near the Canadian border. Sometimes the planes buzz the water to alert boaters but I was also told that on calm days they actually buzz the lake to stir up some waves to make the water easier to see. I have zero clue if that's true so hopefully someone here can clarify.

On our lake there are two float plane airports so there are signs everywhere warning boaters to look around, look up, and be aware of planes taking off and landing. In the non-airport areas, you just need to be paying attention and use common sense/