FIXED! 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

cp2smith

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Wanted to share my experience troubleshooting the 4.3L 2bbl v6 in my 1989 Searay Seville mid-cabin.

Purchased the boat used and it ran fine initially and then started losing power and backfiring. The boat had been stored for a couple of years so I expected some carb / fuel issues. Have been troubleshooting for the past couple of weeks.

Rebuilt the Mercarb with rebuild kit including powervalve since I believed the engine was running lean. Filled the tank with fresh fuel. New fuel/water separator. Didn't help the situation.

Removed the spark plugs and later found that the wrong plugs had been installed. They were AC delco plugs but someone had put in the long extended tip ones which I believe are intended for the vortec head which is thicker. Two of the plugs were severely damaged, (see photo) however I was unsure if the damage was due to running lean and not being tight, or contact by the piston. The plugs that were in it were AC MR43LTS (long reach,extended tip). Correct plugs were AC MR43. Replaced them with the correct ones and the engine ran better but still lacked power and backfired.

Checked all ignition components, water in the fuel, anti-siphon valve, fuel pump, etc with negative results.

Checked timing thoroughly including electronic advance. All appeared to be working fine.

Did a compression check and found 4 of 6 cylinders fine with 140-160psi. Two adjacent cylinders had 0 psi compression. Obviously I figured it had blown a head gasket. Pulled the valve cover and confirmed valves weren't stuck, just in case, and they were all operating fine.

Removed the cylinder head today and found head gasket to be fine, no piston damage, but two cracked exhaust valves. I believe that as the spark plugs were disintegrating, bits may have gotten stuck in the exhaust valves as they were closing and cracked them. The two destroyed plugs came out of the two cylinders with cracked valves. There was evidence of contact on one of the other plugs but it depended on which orientation the plug was in when it went tight as none of the others were damaged. Appears as though the piston or valve struck the ground electrode.

Here is what the underside of the head looked like. (see photos). No other damage observed and normal compression on all other cylinders. Tomorrow I'll be ordering two new exhaust valves and hoping there is no damage to the valve seats. I'll post results once it's back together.

_DSC0043_Medium.jpg_DSC0045_Medium.jpg_DSC0046_Medium.jpg_DSC0039_Medium.jpgboatpic.jpg
 

Bondo

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Ayuh,.... I'd sooner think the root cause is a Fuel Delivery issue, as in it went Lean, causing Detonation...
Hence the valves are White in color...

There's just No way the plugs hit the valves...
The plug's pieces would more likely just passed through...
 

cp2smith

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Could be, but I'm not sure. Like I said, one of the plugs had visible damage from contact. There was a flat dent dent in the ground electrode, most likely from the piston hitting it due to the excessive length of the incorrect plug. The electrode was bent a little too. Upon closer inspection one of the other plugs had the ground electrode completely broken off, with no other damage to the plug. Several of the plugs were definitely contacting something. They were about twice as long as they should have been for that engine, however due to the orientation of the plug in relation to the piston, it would all depend on how they were screwed in. When the plug went tight, if the ground electrode was facing up, I don't think the piston would have hit. With it facing down, it definitely hit, which is why I observed a large flat dent in one of the ground electrodes.

I heard no detonation, and there are no other telltale signs of detonation.

Either way, there doesn't appear to be any other damage, and the carb has been completely rebuilt and cleaned. Once the new valves are in it should run great. (with the correct plugs this time).




Ayuh,.... I'd sooner think the root cause is a Fuel Delivery issue, as in it went Lean, causing Detonation...
Hence the valves are White in color...

There's just No way the plugs hit the valves...
The plug's pieces would more likely just passed through...
 

Bondo

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

I don't think so.

Ok,... You asked for opinions of the evidence,+ I stated what I see,+ what I know does Happen....
Just because the Carb was rebuild, Don't mean the rest of the fuel system is up to snuff...
They were about twice as long as they should have been for that engine,
They're 1/8" longer, .125".... No where near Twice as long....
 

zbnutcase

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Detonation doesnt have to be heard to be happening!!!!!!! I'm with Bond-o
 

cp2smith

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Thanks for the opinions. Perhaps it was running lean, however the plugs definitely contacted the pistons. Assuming the valve damage had absolutely nothing to do with piston to plug contact, that would mean I had two different problems.

Also, the incorrect plugs weren't just long reach, they were also extended tip, which is what I believe contacted the pistons and broke at least three of the electrodes off.

Howevever as mentioned there could have been two completely different problems.
 

Bondo

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

that would mean I had two different problems.

Absolutely,...
The plugs, being Beat, weren't firing,+ the exhaust valves should be mocha Brown on a properly fueled/ tuned motor to Black on an overfueled motor...

Being White is Why I'm thinkin' a Lean condition,+ Detonation...
 

cp2smith

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Thanks. When I get the head back on I'll monitor the plug condition closely to make sure it's not running lean.

Did you notice in picture #1 that the exhaust valve that isn't damaged is much darker than the other two. That plug was undamaged and didn't contact the piston.


Absolutely,...
The plugs, being Beat, weren't firing,+ the exhaust valves should be mocha Brown on a properly fueled/ tuned motor to Black on an overfueled motor...

Being White is Why I'm thinkin' a Lean condition,+ Detonation...
 

KJSmitty

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

The plugs may have contacted the piston yet you typically can see the contact point on the piston. Chunks from the bad valves could have done the damage to the plugs... I would possibly consider pulling both heads - yet if compression is fine in the other three cylinders maybe you're good.

Given possible plug/electrode position, could the valves had contacted the plugs?

- Definitely check/monitor for proper mixture once you have it running.

Good luck
 

cp2smith

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

I'm going to screw one of the long extended electrode plugs into the head once I get the valve springs removed to see if it is possible they contacted. It's more likely the piston that hit.

Good point though on the valve chunks possibly damaging the plugs.... hadn't thought about that.

Compression is good on the other bank of cylinders, 145-160 psi on all 3, so I probably won't bother pulling that head. Also with the exception of one dented electrode, the plugs were fine on that bank.

On the bad bank of cylinders (with the two broken valves), the good cylinder was 155 psi with no plug damage.

I'll post the results when it's back together, and I'll be monitoring the mixture closely. It's not fun pulling a cylinder head off in 30 degree heat.


The plugs may have contacted the piston yet you typically can see the contact point on the piston. Chunks from the bad valves could have done the damage to the plugs... I would possibly consider pulling both heads - yet if compression is fine in the other three cylinders maybe you're good.

Given possible plug/electrode position, could the valves had contacted the plugs?

- Definitely check/monitor for proper mixture once you have it running.

Good luck
 
Joined
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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Interesting stuff.

May we have a real close up look at all the spark plugs? Looking down into the center.

How about some close ups of the pistons?

Does your carb have little distribution wings on the boosters?
 

mariner1900

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

The spark plugs look burnt and damaged from heat to me more than from impact damage.

If the plugs had been hit by the pistons then the pistons will also have signs of impact damage.
 

JustJason

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Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

Re: 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

The plugs, even though the wrong length, did not hit the pistons. Everything is the same dimension inside of the motor. So if 1 hit, they all would hit.

My gut tells me to start looking in 1 of 2 places.

You defineately had detonation issues. But with the valves (ex side)are so clean I would almost bet you have an intake manifold leak and leaking water into cyls 3 and 5. If you haven't destroyed the intake gasket yet, have a close look at it and look for any evidence of water tracing.

FYI, it's not just an underpar fuel delivery system that causes detonation to, air leaks will make any motor run lean.
 

cp2smith

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Re: FIXED! 4.3L cracked exhaust valve experience

I replaced the two cracked exhaust valves in the head and reinstalled with new intake gaskets, and head gasket. Just got back from a test cruise and it felt like a new boat. Obviously much more power with 6 cylinders firing instead of 4.

I inspected the piston tops closely in the two cylinders with the damaged plugs. I saw a couple of tiny nicks in the top of the piston but nothing serious. I did notice some slight damage on the valve seats after removing the two broken exhaust valves. I believe something definitely got stuck in the valve as it closed.... possibly bits of plug, possibly the valve bits themselves. They cleaned up nicely with some valve grinding compound.

Anyhow, got it all back together in a little over 3 hours and it runs fantastic. Normal compression on all 6 cylinders.

Backfiring is gone too! I'm going to check the plugs after an hour or two of running to ensure I still don't have a lean condition, however it feels like it's running normally.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try to take a close up of the damaged plugs and post them.
 
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