First Year Electronic Ignition?

[LaqueRatt]

Like the title says, just wondering in what year Johnny Rude went solid state? Anyone like points better?

 

[racerone]

On the 1967 100 HP , first year for breakerless ignition.-----Points give you warning when they need attention.----But most people today are prepared to pay up to $150 / hr to solve any and all problems on modern motors.

 

[LaqueRatt]

Wow, that long ago. Were all motors breakerless around 1967? Reason I'm asking is a friend is looking for a boat and wants to avoid points. Yeah, I know. Maybe I'm just old school, but I don't mind points. They seem to last pretty long with just a little attention now and then.

 

[racerone]

What hp motor / age is he looking for ??----Find the parts books.------Look for motors with amplifier or powerpack.---The 6 HP and 9.9 / 15 HP / 20 HP / 35 HP have had breakerless since 1977.----Some earlier big motors 68 to 72 were electronic ignition with breaker points.

 

[JimS123]

I don't know what specific date it was. My motors range from 1909 to 2019.

I DO know that some of my early runners in the 1960's had points and they were a PITA. My 1984 Kicker had electronic and it was a dream. When I sold it 35 years later it was still running perfect with no points maintenance.

My 1984 I/O had points and it also was a PITA. In the late '90's I converted it to a Pertronics and it was the best move I ever made. The difference was astounding.

If anyone likes points better they must be fibbing. (antiques are excepted)

 

[F_R]

Again, depends on size motor we are talking about. Some people fear breaker points, some fear breakerless. The ones I don't care much for are the ones with a distributor cap under the flywheel (some have points, some don't). Those were found on larger motors. That was state of the art back then, but things greatly improved around 1972 when that lousy distributor was eliminated..

 

[LaqueRatt]

Doesn't have any real size range in mind. Or year for that matter. He's not sure what he wants. He'd like something to haul his extended family around in and something to fish in. I told him he needs two boats!

My own experience with points vs CDI is on motorcycles. I'd much rather troubleshoot a points ignition than solid state. Those CD boxes when they get old tend to act erratically and aren't always that easy to diagnose.

My four marine motors all have points and the two I've spent time tuning are both running quite well, but haven't seen a lot of hours yet. If they go one season without me having to mess with them I'll be happy. No big deal touching em up and resetting once a year if that's what it takes.

 

[JimS123]

My personal feeling is that I want to go boating. I don't want to have a motor run ragged and I don't want to have to fiddle.

Points my go a year, maybe more. Then, it's dressing them and adjusting and more fiddling.

The CDI works without fiddling. Now, I agree that when the go they go and you can't fiddle to get them running again. Nevertheless, as I said before 35 years on my 1984 and never needed to fiddle.

Now, I have many points motors and I run them once in awhile. But when I take out the family or go fishing, they stay home in the boathouse. I don't have time to fiddle when the weather is perfect.

YMMV.

 

[Crosbyman]

Points being mechanical do wear out but are they that bad.. ?

I have run several 60 year old with points are never had issues with them. They do get pitted by arcing when the associated condensers go and stop protecting them .

Lot of folks probably just test them for a short with a voltmeter having an internal 3-9 volt test battery which is useless for testing internal high voltage leaks. They need one tested with 300v or more . Even new ones may be bad and must be tested beforehand .

On the Western Region AOMCI there is a series of articles on condensers explaing their design and test requirements . And don't get me wrong... I love my EMM controlled ETEC

https://wrcoutboards.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Part1_Condenser_Construction_Failure_Modes.pdf

https://wrcoutboards.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Part2_Condenser_Testers_And_Testing_Correctly.pdf

https://wrcoutboards.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Part3_Sizing_Condensers_Correctly.pdf

https://wrcoutboards.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Part4_Repairing_Broken_Condensers.pdf

 

[matt167]

the points ignition on the ‘66 super seahorse 40hp I had was super reliable. It actually fired up within a couple rotations on a cold start and used to impress people at the launches.. but the carburetor needing a float and the gear case leaking/ old goober repair that it was more of a project than I wanted and I replaced it with a brand new suzuki with EFI and I don’t regret it

 

[racerone]

If you can solve it with money you do not have any problems.------They say that owners of new EV cars have an income typically of $130,000 / year.----This means a lot of folks cannot afford one.----Like many folks cannot afford new outboard motors.

 

[JimS123]

If you can solve it with money you do not have any problems.------They say that owners of new EV cars have an income typically of $130,000 / year.----This means a lot of folks cannot afford one.----Like many folks cannot afford new outboard motors.

Yeah I get it about money. Not everyone wants to or can afford a new EFI 4-stroke. But even if you are on a budget there are still a lot of later model 2-strokes that are CDI.

My point is that points require maintenance and CDI does not. I have had points fail frequently, but never a CDI. Maybe I have just been lucky.

Point ignition accounts for the single time in my life that I required a tow. It was the day after a complete tune-up with new first line parts. It was a hot day and the condenser failed. The dealer said one-in-a-million. So, just drop the kicker and take a slow ride home....not. Hot day, the fuel filter plastic fitting cracked and spewed gas all over the place. So much for planning and being prepared. Now that's another spare part in the toolbox.

 

[Chris1956]

If your CDI unit fails, you need a tow. However, they are real reliable.

If the points get out of adjustment due to wear, they can usually be readjusted well enough to get home with a screwdriver.

I would not let points scare me away from a motor I liked.

 

[LaqueRatt]

Thank you all for your input and I have to say you all make good "points." Pun intended!

As I've grown a bit older I've noticed that our opinions are all colored through the filter of our past experiences. I've had good luck with points, but have had a bad CD box stop me dead in my tracks a few times. Although not in a boat.

To answer the original question though, is it correct that manufacturers started going to solid state in the late 60s early 70s? No particular cut off date? Happened over several years, decades maybe? Unlike cars that pretty much all went pointless about the same time?

 

[racerone]

Mercury started in 1966 on some bigger motors.-----OMC in 67 as clearly stated.----The early motors that had this electronic stuff now suffer from NLA or very big $$$$ parts.-----A handy person can clean points .----Can even wind a new coil with magnet wire.-----When the electronic parts fail you are stuck.

 

[F_R]

I thought it was clear that it wasn't all at the same time, across the board.

 

[racerone]

F R---It was clear to you and I.----We were working on these motors during this time of great progress.

 

[matt167]

In the small engine segment, techumseh had their solid state ignition starting in 1967 for the HH series engines, many years before Briggs and Stratton. The system is really reliable but if it does go bad, techumseh discontinued the replacement parts even before they went bankrupt. The blocks are even different from the points blocks so you can’t retrofit a set of points and get it running. It takes a custom setup to convert them to battery ignition to get them running again

 

[racerone]

On many recent MERCURY and BRP computer controlled motors the ECU or EMM is listed as no longer available.----I beleve many folks will be disappointed by factory support on these big $$ motors.-----Imagine having one of a pair of 200 HP twins down with 500 hrs on them.-----If you can't find the parts would you have to invest in 2 new motors ?

 

[Crosbyman]

some shops do repair EMM's with good comments on their work ... not certain about Mercs ... Most EMM's seem to blow due to loose battery connections, battery transfer switches while running and.. wing nuts . blown parts are usually diodes, regulators etc... common parts but... unfortunatly imbebbed in solidified goop. Of course if the CPU goes one is SOL...

EMM do not like voltage spikes. mine has been great since 2005