Fin on foot

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Fin on foot

Not pro or con on the Tabs or the foils, but why do alot of you feel that a foil is a "Bandaid Solution", if it works? If it solves the original problem, it will continue to solve the problem for good, on the same boat. I don't doubt for a second that Tabs are a good thing, but they are not the only thing out there...

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Fin on foot

I for one think this site would be better served if more manufacturers were on this site. They should identify themselves as such. <br /><br />Then the average Joe's could agree or disagree with them.<br /><br />Ken

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Fin on foot

Quantum;<br /><br />I am sorry if my post has put you or anyone else at odds with each other. I hope everyone has the ability to respect the opinion of others. I understand that you feel I am using this forum to promote our product, and you are correct. I hope you also realize that in the process, I am trying to provide (what I believe) valuable information. <br /><br />About 7 years ago I had a planing problem with my tender ( 10 ft with 9.9 HP). After trying a number of things, I decided that since my big boat had trim tabs this little thing should have them also. However, nothing available was small enough, and they all used 12 volt power, which the tender did not have either.<br /><br />From that point on I made it a mission to find out as much as possible about boat performance and handling ( even though I had been boating for 35 years). A lot what most marine dealers, boat dealers, and even sales people from boat manufacturers told me did not make good logic. As time went on ( before we brought the product to market) my discussions with the design and engineering groups from the various boat manufacturers started to make more sense.<br /><br />This is what I have been communicating on this forum. <br /><br />I feel using props to solve handling and attitude issues, before you deal with the hull itself, is wrong. Props should used to propel.<br /><br />I feel hydrofoil technology is valid, but must be carefully integrated into the boat design and propulsion system. Simply slapping one onto the motor is a crap shoot in the overall handling of the boat. By the way none of the popular brands discuss (in their instruction) how they can affect the performance, handling, and balance, and how to set the boat up (fix it) if any of the issue occur.<br /><br />I feel boat balance and control is more important to the performance of the boat than the engine HP.<br /><br />I feel that tilt and trim on I/O's and outboards is valuable for fine tuning but highly overworked, and depended upon.<br /><br />I feel that people simply do not know why the manufacturers have not used trim tabs on small boats, because the (sales people) either do not know themselves, or are not telling the truth. <br /><br />I feel if you truly believe that you have the better solution for the consumer, you should tell your story and tell them why.<br /><br />I understand that not everyone has the extra money for trim tabs, and that the low price is an attractive easy decision in favor of the hydrofoils. I also believe that they can and do help a boat to plane. <br /><br />I just believe we have a much better solution.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Fin on foot

Originally posted by Canuck 16:<br /> Well...<br />I think the hydrofoils and these so called "smart" tabs are both bandaid solutions! If the boat needs trim tabs, buy real trim tabs! Their made by either Lenco or Bennett, and between those two, I'll only own Bennett's.

Either you havnt followed Johns pevious posts about his product and why they work the way they do, or you just do not want to listen. Power tabs are just plane dangerous on a small boat. John has said time and again that he has (Bennets I believe) on his own big boat.<br /><br />Ive never known anyone that knows boat performance as well as John, we can all learn from his expertice. Sure he is selling a product, but he knows what he is talking about also.

 

[quantumleap]

Re: Fin on foot

Well nautiJohn, Like I said I don't have a problem with you trying to help others with handling problems by recommending tabs, but by constantly bashing hydrofoils to try to divert business your way is something that should not be happening on an open forum like this, especially when their are no reps. from the hydrofoil manufacturers here to refute your claims and defend their products. Just my .02.<br /><br />Lube Dude- I also enjoy your posts, but if I would like to express my dislike for what I felt was open solicitaion on this site, that shouldn't be any of YOUR business!! [edit] I'll be nice.

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: Fin on foot

Quantumleap....good way to end this thread, on a humorous note ......should be no hard feelings here...on to the next post!

 

[mollyog74]

Re: Fin on foot

no hard feelings here. Again appologies if my tone ever came accross as less than nice. I agree, time to move on....There's more to learn

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Fin on foot

Quantum; <br /><br />I appreciate your comments, and invite you to call me so that we do not elongate this thread.

 

[dakotashooter2]

Re: Fin on foot

The one thing I don't like about hydrofoils is the torque they put on the motor. As mentioned it seems you may be trying to correcting your hull problem with your motor.They seem to make the best compromise for motors without power trim. I have a hydrofoil on my current boat, a 16' deephull crestliner (I bought it that way) with a 70 hp and it feels like somebody tossed the anchor out when cornering. I think the previous owner used it in place of trimming out he motor. It is getting removed this summer. You likely will not get any more top end and may get less (more drag)with a hydrofoil especially one of the thicker plastic ones. Think of it this way. If they made all boats perform better wouldn't the motor manufacturer design them into the motors?????????? I'm not saying don't do it, just that your results may or may not be positive.

 

[louisp]

Re: Fin on foot

The reason for my first experiment with foils was my 1995 19' Renken with a C115 Yamaha was slow out of the hole, the motor just looked too trimmed in, and there was an awful spray that splashed back on the transom and motor. I tried 2 plastic brands but they didn't solve my problems. I eventually tried the COBRA and the results were nothing short of incredible. The motor planed MUCH quicker, trimmed out better, gave better top end and fuel milage, and I had clean water behind the boat. And yes, my first reaction was "Why don't manufacturers offer this?" If this is a bandaid, I would buy a box. If I sound like a saleman, sorry you took it that way but I'm just a firefighter with too many boats. I've learned more on this forum from JB, the LubeDude, and others than I could ever get from books, manuals, friends, and manufacturers. And I only chip in when I have actual firsthand knowledge that may provide some insight for what is being sought. I hate see others have to defend their posts and veer from the original thread but felt it must be said. So above all, get it wet every chance you get, LP.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Fin on foot

I think that the general concensus here is that the foils do indeed work to a point, Its just that you are making the engine do what the boat is suppose to do, and that isnt at all the right way to go about it. Ive seen these things literally tear the cavitation plate off of an engine in very rough water, the cavitation plate wasnt ment to hold that much force, if any at all. It is there to assist the prop from losing bite. Like I said before, I have had them and thought they were great untill I tried the tabs, now I know that there is no comparison, NONE. Smart tabs are not a BAND-AID, they are an extension of the hull. Foils are a BAND-AID because the engine isnt suppose to be doing this job. When the foils are trimmed up, there usfullness gos away, (if the boat is set up right in the first place), but trim tabs are still working to control the boat. Something I noticed last time out, is that I do not have the back wash issue I used to have, I can just cut the throttle and come to a stop without water washing over half of my boat. Used to be terrible.<br /><br />Oh, and Quantumleap, I think that these two cats are just going to have to be kept in different pens.<br /><br />

 

[quantumleap]

Re: Fin on foot

Lube Dude, you're probably right about the cats. There are just a whole lot of variables when in comes to planing aids, and my post had nothing to do with those. I was simply concerned with the way company manufacutures were using this forum. I totally disagree with your bandaid theory. I personally don't use either device and have stated I think both can be a useful accessory based on the individual situation. I never tried to shine a negative light on tabs, but since your so intent on defending them I will tell you what I don't like about them. We haven't even touched on the saftey issues of tabs on the back of a boat with small children jumping in and boarding (I have two kids and have enough to worry about with the lower unit. I don't need a piece of flat aluminum protruding right next to the boarding ladder). And there's a reason serious bass boaters don't use tabs. Ever have an 8 pounder make that one last run under the boat? I sure would hate to lose one when the tabs cut the line! There are more issues, but I don't want to stoke the fire anymore. That'll be my last meow on this one!

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Fin on foot

Good points, but the Smart tabs have a rolled edge that I do not think anyone could be cut on. I do see your thoughts about the line getting caught on them though. but then there are the speedometer, (although most are in the lower unit now), transducers, tempsender, etc. back there also. I still think the performance issue is worth it.<br /><br />I only wish there was some way you could try them on your boat without drilling holes, I have to admit to cringing when I had to drill 14 holes in my boat. I believe your boat would be faster by quite abit with the tabs because you could use a bigger prop because the engine is just propelling the boat, not having to use the power to lift the stern.<br /><br />Gosh, are we actually having a conversation?<br /><br />

 

[quantumleap]

Re: Fin on foot

Yes, I believe we are. Let's stop this before I destroy my reputation!!

 

[borourke]

Re: Fin on foot

nautiJohn - Do the SmartTabs work on boats that are 23ft long? I was looking at your website and they say 19+. My engine horsepower is in the range indicated, but size is not. Just curious...

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Fin on foot

Quantum and Lube Dude;<br /><br />A conversation??? Like communication??? Without a therapist??? You guys have to be kidding! What is this world coming to? This could start a new trend and then what would I do - I would have to stay home and argue with the wife. Ooops, can't do that, she works here too, and worse she agrees with me on these trim tabs things. Now I will need to start a new argument! See what you guys have done. Things used to be so simple. <br /><br />Nice way to end this! Quantum, please call 800-233-0194, and thanks for your input.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Fin on foot

Brian O;<br /><br />WE have done boats up to 26 feet but I would like to have more information on your boat before making a solid recomendation.<br /><br />I am assuming that your 23 ft include the swim platform, which makes the hull about 21 ft. No problem at all. Still it would be to your benefit to give me more info.