Fiberglass Residue

Harry WP

Cadet
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
6
Hello All,

I have been thinking of restoring my boat a 94 19.5" Sea Lion, not sure if it is worth doing but I like the boat and the donor hulls I have found are not worth re-powering.

A concern I have with doing the demo in my back yard on the fiberglass is that there will be alot of dust ect that I will be protected from during the demo with the proper equipment but as the fiberglass dust does not break down and will get on the ground, blown around the yard ect what happens when the grass gets mowed, people & pets run around the yard? Won't the dust get stirred back up causing harm later? Or does it sort of just go away never to be worried about again?

Got the boat in the yard, motor and such off, chainsaw at the ready. Then I start reading about the respirators and protection equipment needed on all the great threads I have been reading on here and it makes me wonder about the residual dust........
 

GT1000000

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
4,916
Re: Fiberglass Residue

First off, welcome to the iboats dry dock...

I can tell you my personal experience...

I did a bunch of my initial grinding out in the open in my backyard until someone in the "hood" complained about the smell and dust and the cops showed up and basically told me to finish up and stop...

So as far as a concern with the locals, yes, it can be a big deal...others on the forum have encountered similar problems...
If you live out in the country and don't have any neighbors nearby, you should not have any environmental issues.


PPE... Personal Protective Equipment...is absolutely necessary when working with "glass"... both for you and anyone "hanging around"...it is not good for your lungs, skin, and eyeballs...

On soft ground it gets watered/rained in and it pretty much disappears...on solid ground, I water it down with a mist to keep it from flying around everywhere and then just wash it away...

I built a temporary dust shelter to contain any future dust problems...it has the advantage of keeping things fairly dry, in case you want to work under a rain shower, although, it has a couple of nasty draw backs...it gets hotter than Hades in there any time the Sun is shining and the temp is over 45-50 degrees...it becomes a Hothouse!, and unless you rig up a fairly elaborate air filtration system with strong fans, there will be no air circulating in there and if your area is susceptible to high humidity, it also becomes a Sauna...
Oh yeah, and the dust you are containing sticks to the Tarp and even when you wash it down from the inside, it pretty much stays there, so any time you rub against it, or bang it, a nice dusting of Glass will come down and if you happen to not be wearing your protective gear, WELLLL...:facepalm:

Other than that, if you take some precautions, you should be able to overcome any hurdles and end up with a better than new boat. Heck, you might even get to the point where you miss all the itching and grinding...:rolleyes:

Best of Luck,
GT1M

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ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Fiberglass Residue

There are sort of two sides to this.

1. Dust is never good thing to breath and should be avoided when possible, this is for any type of dust, not just fiberglass. It's the same with the fumes from the resin itself, just try to avoid breathing them.

Side #2. While it's never good to breath dust, people have been breathing fiberglass dust on a daily basis for decades and there hasn't been a real health issue like there has been with other types of dust. Glass shops typically have dust floating around in the air all the time, so even when people aren't grinding they are breathing it in. Resin is the same, don't breath the fumes...but the levels set for exposure by the Feds in the workplace are well above where the average person would consider the odor overpowering, so just because you can smell it doesn't mean you will die soon from some terrible affliction.

I have worked around these products (hands on) for 40+ years and what I see that kills people is the smoking, drugs and alcohol, not exposure to materials.

This is different for epoxy and two part paints, they have some serious possible health issues that can strike fairly quickly, so do all you can to avoid contact.

After saying all this, protect yourself at all times, don't be lazy about it, but don't over do it on the fear end. Just because you can smell some resin or have a little dust around doesn’t mean you or your family are in danger.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Fiberglass Residue

what I see that kills people is the smoking, drugs and alcohol, not exposure to materials.

what ?????? :eek: this cant be true ?????.....say it isnt so.......nooooooooooo:eek::eek:

ya mean i gotta give up the coronas? :(


to the op.....absolutely correct...

if you are doing this in a garage...most of the dust will just sweep up. it is kinda like drywall dust in the fact that the room will need a really good cleaning after....but for the most part...it is all handleable...
 

Harry WP

Cadet
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Fiberglass Residue

Wow, thank you for the quick responses guys I really appreciate it, you put my mind at ease. I am having some doubt as to weather I truly want to tackle this project, in reading through a bunch of the rebuild posts and I feel I have the ability to pull off a nice build. I am not particularly in love with the boat. She rode nice and I think has good lines but I can get a nice clean used boat for 4K-5K in the current market and being I would spend 2K + for materials and I could sell the motor and trailer for $1K-1.5K I just am feeling it may not be worth it.........decisions, decisions.
 

CaptainKickback

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
1,060
Re: Fiberglass Residue

GT1M, is that you in the PPE?

Oops!, as onidavr says, he's been working with FG for over 40 years and doesn't sweat the occasional dust or odor. This tells me the occasional Corona (as in "a case of") will be OK. So, Corona on...

OP, some people post that they keep a shop vac running while they are grinding. I don't because I'm in a boat yard, but something to try.
 

Harry WP

Cadet
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Fiberglass Residue w/ Boat Pics

Re: Fiberglass Residue w/ Boat Pics

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Some pics of the boat
 

CaptainKickback

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
1,060
Re: Fiberglass Residue

By the way GT1M, back in the summer, I bought a 5000 btu window a/c from Brandsmart for $70. Took the edge off. You might try one in you tent.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Fiberglass Residue

GT1M, is that you in the PPE?

Oops!, as onidavr says, he's been working with FG for over 40 years and doesn't sweat the occasional dust or odor. This tells me the occasional Corona (as in "a case of") will be OK. So, Corona on...

OP, some people post that they keep a shop vac running while they are grinding. I don't because I'm in a boat yard, but something to try.

lol cap.....
not to hijack....(im not allowed any more :eek:) but ondarvrs statements are true !

most of the old early boat building shops were owned by real redneck blue collar types.....sell a few boats....buy a few cases of beer.....then some more..

that is why the old addage......in the early days of boat building.....your boat was probably designed by 2 guys at a bar on the back of a cocktail napkin on Friday night. and built by the same 2 guys hungover Monday morning, with a beer break at 10 am !
 

Harry WP

Cadet
Joined
Dec 10, 2011
Messages
6
Re: Fiberglass Residue

If I decide to go forward with the build I have a thought regarding foam. There is a company near me that does a spray in foam which can be bought as closed cell as to hamper water absorption. My thought was to leave the deck/floor off have them spray the foam then use a hot wire to trim it flush to the top of the stringers then install the deck. This should fill any possible void and not allow any spaces for water to pool. Following is some specs for the product

PRODUCT SPECIFICATION
1. PRODUCT NAME
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is a trademark
for medium density, 100% water-blown
polyurethane spray foam manufactured
by Icynene. ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is a
nominal 2 lbs/ft3 density, free rise material.
2. MANUFACTURER
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is made on-site
from liquid components manufactured
by Icynene Inc. Installation and on-site
manufacturing are supplied by independent
Icynene Licensed Dealers.
3. PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Icynene’s next generation of high
performance products includes ICYNENE
MD-R-200™, a 100 % water-blown foam
insulation and air barrier material containing
resins with pre- and post-consumer
recycled content. This unique product is
a tough, low water absorption product
with applicability across a broad range of
substrates, environmental conditions and
climate zones.
It is a type III vapor retarder, with low
vapor permeance. It can be used to limit
diffusion of moisture through building
assemblies.
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ insulates and airseals
in one step for maximum energy
conservation while minimizing the
environmental impact during manufacturing
and construction. Significantly reducing
air leakage means ICYNENE MD-R-200™
contributes to a healthier, quieter and more
comfortable indoor environment, while
reducing energy consumption and related
greenhouse gas emissions by as much as 50%.
The result is superior quality construction,
with higher comfort levels and lower
heating and/or cooling costs. Energy
savings will vary depending on building
design, location, etc.
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is applied by
spraying liquid components onto an open
wall, crawlspace, ceiling surface or cathedral
ceiling. There it expands approximately
30 : 1 in seconds to provide a foam blanket
of millions of tiny air cells, filling building
cavities, cracks and crevices in the process.
It adheres to most construction materials,
sealing out air infiltration.
Excess material is trimmed off, leaving a
surface ready for drywall or other codecompliant
finish.
4. TECHNICAL DATA
(Based on Core Samples)
Contains Recycled Content
Thermal Performance
Thermal resistance (ASTM C518)
- R/in = R5.2 hr. ft2 ?F/BTU
Average insulation contribution in a
stud wall:
- 2” x 4” = R16 (3” foam)
- 2” x 6” = R26 (5” foam)
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ provides more
effective performance than the equivalent
R-value of air permeable insulation
materials. ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is not
subject to loss of R-value due to aging,
windy conditions, settling, convection or
air infiltration; nor is it prone to traditional
moisture intrusion via convective air flow.
A FACT SHEET with R-value data is
available upon request.
Air Permeance/Air Barrier /Air-Seal
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ fills any shaped
cavity, and adheres to most construction
materials, creating assemblies with very
low air permeance. Additional interior or
exterior air infiltration protection is subject
to applicable codes.
Air permeability of core foam:
ASTM E283 data:
- 0.0016 L/s.m2 @ 75 Pa for 2”.
ASTM E2178 data
- 0.0015 L/s.m2 @ 75 Pa for 2”.
All buildings, insulated and air-sealed with
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ must be designed
to include adequate mechanical ventilation/
outdoor air supply. See ASHRAE Standard
62 – Ventilation for Acceptable Indoor Air
Quality.
Water Vapor Permeance
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is a type III vapor
retarder with low water vapor permeability
reducing the amount of moisture that can
diffuse through the insulation.
Water vapor transmission properties:
(ASTM E96 Desiccant Method)
- 1.3 Perms @ 3”
Water Absorption Properties
The absorption of liquid water is very low.
Water Absorption, % by volume
- ASTM D2842: 0.57%
Burn Characteristics
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is a combustible
product and is therefore, consumed by
flame, but will not sustain flame upon
removal of the flame source. It leaves
a charred foam residue. It will not melt
or drip. ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is
subject to all National/State and County
building codes regarding fire prevention.
Requirements for Thermal Barrier and
Ignition Barrier coverings must be met as
per the applicable building code having
jurisdiction.
U.S. Fire Testing
Surface Burning Characteristics
(ASTM E84) @ 2” thickness
Flame Spread ≤ 25
Smoke Development ≤ 450
*Flame spread rating not intended to
reflect hazards under actual fire conditions.
Plastic Piping
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is compatible in
direct contact with CPVC piping systems,
as per Paschal Engineering Study for the
Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance.
Bacterial or Fungal Growth and Food Value
Independent testing conducted as per
ASTM C1338 showed that ICYNENE
MD-R-200™ is not a source of food
for mold; and as an air barrier material,
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ restricts the
airborne introduction of moisture,
nutrients, and mold spores into the
building envelope.
Environmental / Health / Safety
ICYNENE MD-R-200™ is 100% waterblown
and therefore contains no ozonedepleting
blowing agents. It is also PBDE-free.
 

chriscraft254

Commander
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
2,445
Re: Fiberglass Residue

There are sort of two sides to this.

1. Dust is never good thing to breath and should be avoided when possible, this for any type of dust, not just fiberglass. It's the same with the fumes from the resin itself, just try to avoid breathing them.

Side #2. While it's never good to breath dust, people have been breathing fiberglass dust on a daily basis for decades and there hasn't been a real health issue like there has been with other types of dust. Glass shops typically have dust floating around in the air all the time, so even when people aren't grinding they are breathing it in. Resin is the same, don't breath the fumes...but the levels for exposure in the workplace are well above where the average person would consider the odor overpowering, so just because you can smell it doesn't mean you will die soon from some terrible affliction.
I have worked around these products (hands on) for 40+ years and what I see that kills people is the smoking, drugs and alcohol, not exposure to materials.

This is different for epoxy and two part paints, they have some serious possible health issues that can strike fairly quickly, so do all you can to avoid contact.

After saying all this, protect yourself at all times, don't be lazy about it, but don't over do it on the fear end. Just because you can smell some resin or have a little dust around doesn?t mean you or your family are in danger.

People have also been smoking for years, a long time ago they didn't know what it did to you health wise! There is no reason to smoke or not protect yourself from dust knowing what we know today! Just because someone else has done it for years, means nothing!!!!!!!!!

Don't believe everything you here!!!!!!! Fiberglass dust will clog your lungs and you can die from it! May not be right away, but after being exposed constantly for years, do expect some bad effects later in life. Take a look at your breathing mast filters the next time you replace one! Your lungs do not have the ability to filter Fiberglass dust!!! Protect yourself at all times if you really want to be safe. If you can smell it, it indeed is going through your lungs!!! Good day
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Fiberglass Residue

I think you should also highlight the rest of what I said.

I get to see the studies done on dust and resin exposure, I have a vested interest in it seeing as I would be one of the people that would be most likely to suffer from the affects of long term exposure. Again, that is long term exposure. Very short term exposure, like what would be normal for a rebuild, would probably be statistically meaningless. It would be like smoking for one day as a teenager, my recommendation is to not smoke for that one day though.

One of the studies done on the industry compared laminators (glass shop workers) with people from the electronics industry, it turned out the glass shops were overall the healthier of the two industries to work in, at least from what that study of the employees showed.

OSHA and other agencies have tried for decades to pin any ailment they can on this type of work without much luck. They did recently classify styrene as a probable carcinogen, not because there is any direct evidence, only because of it being a solvent it may have negative affects like some other solvents do. But again, this is for long term exposure.
 

zymox

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
104
Re: Fiberglass Residue

I can perhaps contribute with something in this,
The main harm to what we use is rarely cancer. It's usually the allergy-risk we should be concerned of. Imagine that you develop a severe allergy to phtalicacid witch is the main component in oil-based paint and yeps, you guessed right. Polyester. Almost everything is painted with this type of paint...
I did work for over 20 years at a company called DSM Resins Scandinavia where we manufactured the polyester resin and also the resin for oil based paint. One of the biggest question we had was how dangerous the styrene was compared to other solvents.
What makes solvent dangerous is that it dilutes fat and is so fine refined that it will be soaked up by your skin if exposed to enough. This means that it can dissolve brain tissue since the brain consist of a high portion of fat. We could measure this in the belly-fat up to several weeks after exposed to it... Some are also more or less carcinogenic.
The latest fact before I ended my career there was that it can take a very long time before you can see the damage caused by styrene making it impossible to blame as the right cause. As for the allergenic part it's mostly the components it self that is causing this.
As for paint and for polyester resins, one of the head ingredients is phtalic acid witch is a chemical that is a fact to cause allergy. Since this is a main ingredients it's assumed that it will do the same when cooked together with all the other stuff you have in the batch like glycol, fatty acid oil. For the polyester it mostly consist of Phtalic and Maleic acid and a good portion of propylene glycol and some other smaller parts.
I haven't heard that the Maleic acid will cause any allergy but it will for a fact cause irritation to your skin and also burn your throat if inhaled. I know this by personal experience.
However when cooked together with all other ingredients you'll end up with a resin were the chemicals are bound to each-other making it a new product with new characteristics. This goes for the cured product as well. It has then changed it's chemical structure to something completely different.
This goes also for epoxy witch also was one of the product that we produced. I can't remember the exact ingredients for this but one of the chemicals was classified as very allergy causing and also carcinogenic. We handled this with one time protection clothes for safety reason. This chemical could also cause changes in the skin pigment which is what happens when you develop skin cancer caused by burns from the sun. It can be so aggressive that that you if unlucky only need one single contact with it to be stuck with a lifetime of contact allergy.
The danger of epoxy lays in the epoxy resin before it has been cured because when it's cured it has changed it's chemical bindings to a totally different material and is hereby consider not dangerous.
Same thing goes for foam, The dangerous ingredient of this is Toluene diisocyanate witch also causes severe allergy and also is very toxic. Especially when inhaled.
Repeated overexposure and/or a high one-time accidental exposure to TDI may cause allergic lung sensitization or asthma. This stuff was classified as one of the most dangerous chemical we handled and was considered so bad that only the operator was allowed to be in the area where it was handled. He should have a respiratory breather and one time clothes at all the time he handled this. This is the chemical that makes the foam alive when exposed to the small amount of moist in normal air. Then it reacts by making CO2 causing the resin to swallow and some urea. When reacted with the water it's not the same product any more and considered not dangerous. The neutralization liquid for this is made of ammonia and water and after exposed to that it can be wiped with a normal cloth.

Conclusion:
A lot can be said and be written but best thing is to keep your self well protected, especially when the products not have been cured. Dust is not good for your lungs for obvious reason and the chemicals that we handles is harmful and can cause you all kinds of health trouble making it better to be protected than not.

Ondarvr has made the point and what he says makes sense. Protect your self and have respect for the products that you use bur don't exaggerate and as Ondarvr already said, a smell doesn't mean you're in danger. A great example we all can relate to: A fart smells like hell sometimes but still it's in such small amount that it can hardly be measured. All though you will die when exposed to high amount of methane and nitrogen witch is the main component of a fart :eek:
 
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