Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Holdimhook

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This just reported on CNN:<br />Exxon Mobil has forecast this quarter's profit at 10 BILLION dollars. CNN stated that this is the largest profit quote by anyone in history. :eek: :eek: :eek:
 

pjc

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

gotta go with the free market response of..."so what, market forces at werk". Any other response such as oil, fuel, beer, boat, etc. prices should be regulated??????? That would be labeled as Socialism, another form of government.<br /><br /> And I am well aware that there are some commodities, but few, that are price controlled via tariffs, for example. That said, imagine you are a stake holder of Exxon stock, and rely on the dividend, for example, for your sustenance.
 

Holdimhook

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Is that a true example of market forces at work, or price gouging during a crisis situation (e.g. selling plywood for $150.00 per sheet before a storm)? I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing, just interested in what you all think.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

http://www.petroleumnews.com/pntruncate/35317794.shtml <br /><br />Saudi oil shock ahead<br /><br />Simmons pokes holes in image of unlimited Middle East oil; prepare for worst<br /><br />Rose Ragsdale<br /><br />Petroleum News Contributing Writer<br /><br /><br />As Congress turns to legislation that could open a new era of Alaska Arctic oil production, one highly regarded energy analyst says he’s convinced the move is critical to the success of a national energy strategy.<br /><br />Matthew R. Simmons, author of “Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy,” (John Wiley & Sons Inc., 2005), says crude from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge’s 1.5-million-acre coastal plain could play a valuable role in the nation’s energy policy. <br /><br />Simmons, an investment banker who holds an MBA from Harvard University, is chairman and chief executive officer of Houston-based Simmons & Co. International, which specializes in the energy industry. He serves on the boards of Brown-Forman Corp. and The Atlantic Council of The United States. He’s also a member of the National Petroleum Council and The Council of Foreign Relations. <br /><br />Simmons recently shared his views with Petroleum News on Alaska’s oil and gas industry. He has been busy promoting his book with appearances on several talk shows, including a recent radio interview with Jim Puplava, host of Financial Sense Newshour. “Twilight in the Desert” hit the bookstores in the spring and is generating considerable comment in energy, economic and political circles.<br /><br />Dearth of energy data<br /><br />Simmons’ book is the culmination of years of research, including scrutiny of 200 technical papers, published by the Society of Petroleum Engineers, on problems encountered by professionals working in Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. The papers, combined with transcripts from little-noticed U.S. Senate hearings in the 1970s and Simmons’ discovery that little actual public and verifiable data exists on Saudi oil reserves, form the backbone of observations and conclusions in the book.<br />While most energy economists start with the assumption that Middle East oil reserves are plentiful, Simmons questioned that assumption after he found that no one had ever compiled a verifiable list of the world’s largest oil fields and the reserves they hold.<br /><br />His questions first surfaced at a Washington, D.C., workshop, conducted by CIA energy analysts, where top energy experts gathered several years ago.<br /><br />“We’d spend a day doing a discussion of all the key countries, and how much oil capacity they had in place over the course of the coming three years,” Simmons recalled. “And I basically said, ‘How do you all even know that? What are the three or four top fields in China?’ And no one had any answers.<br /><br />“So I decided it would be interesting and educational to see if you could actually put together a list of the top 20 oil fields by name,” he added.<br /><br />Saudi oil reserves finite<br /><br />That exercise revealed that Saudi Arabia, like most of the other Middle East countries, extracted 90 percent of its oil production from five huge fields, and the biggest of the fields, Ghawar, had been producing oil for more than 50 years.<br />“What I also found is that the top 14 fields that still produce over 500,000 barrels per day each, were 20 percent of the world’s oil supply, and on average they were 53 years old,” he observed.<br /><br />Historically, oil field discoveries fit a pattern that Simmons likens to the nobility of a European country or the pieces on a chessboard. In each of the world’s great oil basins, explorers have found a large field first, most often the “queen” field but sometimes the “king.” Next explorers typically find another large field, usually the other half of the royal pair. After that, oil basins typically yield several moderate-sized fields, or “lords.” Beyond that, only small pools of crude reserves or “peasants” typically remain, he said. <br /><br />In “Twilight in the Desert,” Simmons not only documents the history of Saudi Arabia and its oil fields, he also questions the Middle East country’s claims that it still has plentiful oil reserves. He notes that Ghawar is the “king” field and is flanked by a score of lesser fields, ranging from “queen” size in Abqaiq to much smaller pools.<br /><br />Simmons also suggests that Saudi production is very near its peak. But the feedback he has received from technical people who have read the book, leads him now to believe that Saudi Arabia has “actually exceeded sustainable peak production already.”<br /><br />“And I think at the current rates they are producing these old fields, each of the fields risks entering into a rapid production collapse,” he said.<br /><br />People don’t understand peak oil<br /><br />Simmons said energy economists are reluctant to even entertain the notion that Saudi oil output is past its peak because they really don’t understand the difference between oil supply peaking and running out of oil.<br />“I continue to remind people that the difference is as profound as someone saying, ‘I’m getting a little bit hungry,’ and someone saying, ‘I have about two more minutes to live before I starve to death,’” Simmons said. “… We will never run out of oil, in our lifetime, our children’s lifetime, our grandchildren’s lifetime. But by 2030 we could easily have a world that can only produce 10 or 15 or 20 million barrels per day, and the shortfall from what we thought we were going to produce is only a modest 100 million barrels per day. So this is really a major, major, major global issue.”<br /><br />Compounding the problem is that every energy supply model used by economists today starts with the assumption that Saudi oil is plentiful, Simmons said. “What’s interesting is that we’ve based all of this assumption on no data,” he explained.<br /><br />Saudi oil shock is imminent<br /><br />Meanwhile, as the world’s thirst for oil grows, Saudi Arabia and other oil-producing countries will be unable to keep pace. Some analysts say Saudi Arabia is capable of producing 20 million to 25 million bpd, but Simmons says that level of production is “impossible.”<br />“And I also believe that — Ghawar, for instance, which is really the whole nine yards, because that is 60 percent of their production — that North Ghawar, which is the top 20 percent of the field, has a productivity index that is about 25 times the productivity index of the rest of Ghawar, and that’s the area that is almost depleted now,” Simmons observed. “And when that drops, you could basically see Ghawar go from 5 million down to 2 million bpd in a very short period of time.”<br /><br />Cupboard nearly bare<br /><br />Until now, Simmons said the United States has been lucky because Saudi oil production was 3 million bpd when U.S. oil production peaked in 1971. Saudi output soared and today ranges from 9 million bpd to 11 million bpd.<br />Elsewhere, explorers discovered the last three great provinces of brand new oil in the last three years of the 1960s — Prudhoe Bay in Alaska in 1967-68; Siberian oil fields in the same period of time; and oil in the North Sea in 1969. <br /><br />“And Siberia, Alaska, and North Sea oil, effectively combined to produce: the North Sea peaked in 1999 at a little over 6 million bpd, it’s already down 25 percent; Alaska oil peaked in the 1990s at 2 million bpd; it’s now at about 900,000 bpd; and Siberia oil peaked at about 9 million bpd; and it’s about 5 million bpd,” Simmons said. “And we haven’t basically found another province since the late ‘60s.”<br /><br />To meet growing demand from existing customers as well as a new surge in demand from emerging countries such as China and India, Simmons said producers have continued to pull more and more oil out of the North Sea. “And then we found deep water which was a fabulous last shot from the basins (in which) we already had shallow water production. And we took the Middle East oil back up to unsustainably high levels of production,” he said. “So probably, we’re sweeping the cupboard bare. People looked at the way we were able to do this and thought, ‘Wow! This is actually easy,’ without realizing what we were actually doing was totally non-sustainable.”<br /><br />ANWR may hold ‘queen’<br /><br />America needs more oil sources and Alaska is a good place to look, Simmons said. As for ANWR, he said it’s ludicrous for people, whether geologists or environmentalists, to make definitive statements about the quantity of oil reserves in the refuge.<br />“Drilling on the (North) Slope has been tricky. Otherwise, it would not have been so hard to find the ‘king,’ Prudhoe Bay, or we would never have drilled Mukluk,” he said. “So we shall never know whether ANWR is a series of dry holes or where the missing ‘queen’ of the slope lies until an intense drilling is done. A few dry holes does not mean much either.” <br /><br />The environmental community’s claim that ANWR contains only a six months supply of oil is a calculation that assumes the nation has no other source of oil when ANWR oil comes on line, Simmons said.<br /><br />“On that standard, we end any new energy development, period,” Simmons said. “What is very important about the urgent need to find more oil at ANWR, the Naval Reserve or somewhere else on the slope is the inevitable decline of North Slope oil, and the fast decline that will happen if a gas pipeline is built and the gas caps (are) blown down.” <br /><br />Moreover, it would not take 10 years to get a big oil find in ANWR into production since the infrastructure is in place, Simmons observed.<br /><br />“At some point, the oil that flows through the 2 million bpd pipeline must fall to a level insufficient to get oil over the Brooks Range other than by shutting in for part of a month so the oil can be batched,” he explained. “If all ANWR does is extend the life of the pipeline, it has filled a very valuable role.<br /><br />“If a ‘lord’ is found, let alone a ‘queen,’ it is a home run,” he added. <br /><br />As for the rest of Alaska, Simmons said he has no idea whether the state contains other large pools of oil. “The only way oil is ever found (and gas, too) is to drill wells,” he said.<br /><br />Oil is still cheap!<br /><br />Though the world needs more oil sources, Simmons does not see additional reserves curbing prices in the long term.<br />While others lament the high price of oil, the investment banker says crude oil at current prices of 18-20 cents a pint is “cheap.”<br /><br />“Obviously it’s cheap. I don’t know what’s the next cheapest liquid we actually sell in any bulk is, that has any value. I suspect there are places around the United States where municipal water costs more than 18 cents a pint,” he observed. “And yet for some reason, we created a society built on a belief that oil prices in a normal range were some place in the $15-20 level. It turns out $15 per barrel, which is the average price of oil — in 2004 dollars — it sold for, for the last 140 years, is less than 4 cents a pint. So we’ve basically used up the vast majority of the world’s high flow rate, high quality sweet oil at prices that were effectively so cheap, you basically couldn’t sustain an industry. And now we’re left with lots of oil. But it’s heavy, gunky, dirty, sour, contaminated-with-various-things oil. It doesn’t come out of the ground very fast, is very energy intensive to get out of the ground, and we’re going to pay a fortune for it.”<br /><br />Problems ahead<br /><br />Simmons predicted we would encounter problems with oil supplies this year, nearly a month before Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast.<br />He said we must operate the nation’s refineries at 100 percent, or we have major product shocks, and we have to import oil at a rate of 10 million to 11 million bpd, or we lose crude oil stocks. We have to basically create almost 3 million bpd of finished product imports and we have to run the system 24/7, all summer long, and we still liquidate stocks, he said.<br /><br />“So we have actually now created a pending domestic embargo, and we’re going to be lucky to get through the summer without some periodic shortages,” he told Financial Sense Newshour the week of Aug. 6. “We probably will, but the odds are probably as high we will have some shortages, and then if we get through the summer we have a fabulous respite from Labor Day to Thanksgiving, until we hunker to try to figure out how the world gets through the Winter of 2005 and 2006 because oil demand globally could easily go to 86-88 million bpd during the winter, and that could easily exceed supply by 2 million to 5 million bpd.”<br /><br />In a worst case scenario, Simmons said oil prices could easily soar past $100 a barrel without slowing down.<br /><br />Such high prices would simply be a sticker shock, not an end to driving, he said. “At $3.20 a gallon, gasoline costs 20 cents a cup. A cup of gasoline can take a full car of people about 1 1/2 miles. If you think this is expensive, try and hire a rickshaw or a horse-drawn wagon and pay only 20 cents to go a mile and half. After haggling price for an hour or so, you pay about $5 to $6 for the ride and thank the person for not making you walk.”<br /><br />Curing our energy addiction<br /><br />To cope with the coming oil shock and much higher oil prices, Simmons told Financial Sense Newshour, the world, led by the United States, will have to become drastically energy efficient virtually overnight. A series of changes, including transporting all goods that currently travel by truck, by rail or water, could cut oil consumption 20-40 percent, he said. <br />“So by getting trucks off our highway system we have a major impact on removing traffic congestion. And traffic congestion is public enemy number 1 through 5 on passenger car fuel efficiency. So it’s a real win, win, win,” he observed.<br /><br />He also suggested returning to a system of growing most foods close to where they will be consumed and using technology to allow people to work at home or in their village rather than requiring them to commute to a central location.<br /><br />Simmons also advocates jumpstarting the largest energy R&D program ever envisioned, and “just pray that over 5-7 years it has the same impact as when people got serious about developing radar, and developing nuclear power, so that we could actually win World War II.”<br /><br />“But if we don’t do these things, then this really ends up being a very dark world — no pun intended,” he added.
 

alden135

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Originally posted by Holdimhook:<br /> Is that a true example of market forces at work, or price gouging during a crisis situation (e.g. selling plywood for $150.00 per sheet before a storm)?
Well holdimhook, you have "plywood", then you have "hurricane rated" plywood. It comes from special trees and is only sold just before the storm. ;) <br /><br />"hurricane repair" plywood is also available nationwide after the storm, also at a fantastic price.
 

CalicoKid

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Ralph, that was a very interesting read, much of which we've seen before but the idea that we don't really know what's left in the ground in Saudi is reason to be cautious indeed. Oil is still cheap here even though we comlain about $3/gal gas. In the near future it will cost five times as much or more. We are at least being eased into higher prices a buck at a time. I hope Alaskan oil is reserved for the future when it is worth top dollar and is put to good use in a more energy efficient society rather than squandered in the way we burn oil and gas today.<br /><br />As far as oil companies recording these huge profits? Get it while ya can! Right now oil is coming out of the ground for next to free and demand is, of course, higher than ever. The barons of oil are in their heyday. Regardless of how much the middleman is taking we consumers are still getting off easy.<br /><br />I only hope our policies from now on are deeply considerate of the future we are facing.
 

JB

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Oh, horrors!! :eek: <br /><br />Those evil capitalists!
 

PW2

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

I would not know how to tell the difference between "gouging" and normal market factors.<br /><br />Gouging can only happen in a situation when demand dramatically exceeds supply, and how does that differ from normal supply demand imbalances?<br />I don't know.
 

jtexas

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Market forces my a55.<br /><br />Go easy on me, here, it's just a theory; agree, disagree, debunk, riducule the idea all you want just don't get personal.<br /><br />*Refinery capacity is the primary factor limiting supply which pushes up price.<br /><br />*A guiding principle of free market economy is that when profit margins reach a certain point, competitors will enter the market, to grab a share of a lucrative business.<br /><br />*The primary barrier to entry into the refining business is...drum roll please...federal government regulation. Clean-air or some other environmental BS.<br /><br />*It's the equivalent of Government price support.<br /><br />*This is the unexpected link between Big Oil and the Enviro-nazis.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Way to go JT! Although the capital required to enter the business has to be enormous too. Then you have issues around distribution - most of the big oil companies are vertically integrated owning everything from the pump on the street corner to the crude pump in the ground. But you are 100% right, the largest barrier is regulatory which is why there hasn't been a new refinery built since the 70s.<br /><br />There are enough oil companies to keep the market competitive UNLESS there is price collusion which is illegal. If there is no collusion there is always pressure to cut price on a commodity and take market share from your competitors, who in turn, cut price until an equilibrium is reached.
 

Fly Rod

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

:) The 2nd Alaskan Pipe Line is coming!!!! ;) :cool:
 

oddjob

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Thanks for the School'n JT. You made easy for me with those clever bullets... :)
 

oddjob

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

Hey PW, I agree it hard to tell the difference. But I did notice the local gas station I frequent went up 50 cents in one day. I know because the news that day was predicting it would go up to # dollars in some states. It was the same day Ladyfish started the thread about gas prices. Right after I read the thread and herd the news I decided to run down to the end of the street a few hours before work lets out to make sure I would get some gas before the city panic that I new would ensure right after work. <br />The next day they dropped 2 or 3 cents to get it under 3 dollars. <br /><br /><br />When the cost goes up 50 cents from morning till noon I would say thats gouging because the local service stations will pass on the cost of higher prices from the supply sources to the public only after the've purchased it. Not before. Even if a new shipment of gas did come that day....if the service station had to pay 50 more per gallon then the total price to the customer should be less 3dollars when you account for the lower cost gas that was already in the pumps before they refilled.<br /><br />I think they raised the price based on the hype and not the other. I dont buy gas from them anymore.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

It's not necessarily gouging Oddjob and here is why. Gas stations price gas based on the next load cost, not the cost they paid for the gas in their tanks now. That is how they avoid losing money when wholesale prices go up, but it also means they sell gas cheaper than they paid for it when the price is falling (assuming there are other stations in the area).<br /><br />The State of MA ran around to gas stations and checked prices when the price rose and couldn't find a single case of gouging (however that state laws define it).<br /><br />Price gouging is usually defined as pricing above the market when no alternative retailer is available. An example would be a tow truck driver charging $500 to pull you out of ditch just because you were from out of town and didn't know who else to call when a local would be charged $100 - you were gouged (taken advantage of)<br /><br />In MA there is a specfic % above market (like 30% or something). It's kind of like the usery laws (charging a very high interest rate on a loan- loan sharking)
 

PW2

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

You kind of answered your own question, OJ. You went and filled up "just in case". So did lots of others, as no doubt station owners did too. Hence a spike in demand, and price.<br /><br />It went up here to $3.39 for two days, before going to $2.99. It was 2.98 yesterday.<br /><br />I also heard that nat'l demand for gas was down 4 % since the big rise. And gas futures are down considerably. The price will go down. Market forces do work.<br /><br />And where is the evidence that environmentalists are responsible for no new refineries? I'm sure there are stringent regulations for new refineries, as there should be. There should be stringent regs for existing refineries. I don't know much about refineries, but if you allow the environment to be polluted someone at some point has to pay to clean it up. Why should not the current users of gas shoulder this cost?
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

It onlya takes 2 seconds of work to find some proof PW. I await your, "well, tha's not really proof" reply with great anticipation:<br /><br /> http://www.refineryreform.org/ <br /><br />there are plenty of others too<br /><br />
AIR DISTRICTS CONSIDER FLARE RULES AS ACTIVISTS PUSH NATIONAL STRATEGY <br />Date: July 28, 2005<br /><br />Environmentalists are working on a nationwide strategy to push local air officials to develop rules to control air toxics emissions from refinery flaring in the absence of a federal mandate. Activists also argue that a new flaring rule in a California air district is not stringent enough even though it is the first such mandate in the country.<br /><br />The Bay Area Air Quality Management District on July 20 adopted a rule to reduce the burning of excess gases at the district's five oil refineries. It builds on a June 2003 district rule which required refineries to monitor and report flare emission data to the air district. Relevant documents are available on InsideEPA.com.<br /><br />Activists welcome the district's rule in the absence of a federal mandate, but say that it does not go far enough. The activists instead are supporting a more stringent proposed rule to be considered for adoption later this year by California's South Coast Air Quality Management District.<br /><br />
<br />Forum looks at refinery pollutants <br />By Jonathan Athens<br />Sun Staff Writer<br />The YUMA SUN <br />April 8, 2005<br /><br />"You've got a balancing act. You've got to decide. Nobody can tell you what to do. "<br /><br />That's what San Francisco-based environmentalist Denny Larson told an audience of more than 70 people on Thursday at a forum about a controversial proposed oil refinery for Yuma County. <br /><br />The balancing act is whether the expected economic gain a proposed new refinery would bring is worth the pollution that the refinery would also create. <br /><br />The controversial issue has mobilized supporters and opponents in the community, prompting petitions, debates, public presentations and letters to The Sun. <br /><br />The forum was sponsored by Yuma County Citizens for Clean Air, a citizens group that opposes Arizona Clean Fuel's vision to build a 150,000 barrel-a-day modern refinery on vacant desert land 40 miles east of Yuma near Tacna. <br /><br />The only available information thus far about the planned refinery has come from ACF, the draft permit and the technical support documents accompanying the draft permit. <br /><br />ACF and state environmental regulators have said the proposed refinery would be "the cleanest operating" one for its kind in the U.S., owing stringent emissions standards and the use of new technology developed since the last completely new refinery was built in the nation. <br /><br />One issue at the forum was how much pollution the proposed refinery would emit if it were built. <br /><br />Larson said older existing refineries have been modernized as required by federal environmental regulations and some oil industrial parks have new refineries that were built from the ground up. <br /><br />Larson said refineries emit higher levels of pollutants than what is outlined in air permits and measured by refineries and inspectors. <br /><br />The draft air permit for the permit proposed refinery here, written by the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality, sets maximum allowable emissions at 1,891 tons of pollutants per year. <br /><br />Late last month, the Environmental Protection Agency raised no objection to the draft permit which ADEQ has revised, adding more monitoring and emissions reporting requirements. <br /><br />Neil Carman, a former Texas environmental inspector and now with the Texas Sierra Club,, said: "If we were to make permits truly protective of public health, it would be too expensive to build plants."<br /><br />At a news conference two hours before the forum, Carman said the draft air permit does not account for emissions that come from start-ups, shutdown and upsets, which all refineries experience. <br /><br />Carman said emissions during those type of events far exceed limitations set in air permits. <br /><br />ACF spokesman Ian Caulkins said, "We are held by the letter of the law to fix any problems." <br /><br />Regarding the draft air permit standards, Calkins said: "What's practical? Could you even build a refinery that doesn't have emissions?" <br /><br />Before ACF can move their plans, an environmental impact statement, to be written by the Bureau of Land Management, is expected to be produced and completed late this year. <br /><br />The impact statement will address the economic, social and environmental impacts of the proposed refinery. <br /><br />
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

I still don't understand why no one seems agitated by the record high fuel prices, and the record high profits, both out of relation to the cost of a barrel of oil. Supply and demand I understand, I also understand that the cost of oil per barrel is indicative of the S v. D equation too. Just seems like the bush buddies in the energy(oil) industry should be feeling the pinch just like the consumer, not regaling in record profits. <br />I say, screw the share holder, that's what's being done to us, on their behalf. The pain should be felt equally, not just by the consumer, which is the only loser in this equation. And when the consumer loses, the economy untlimatley does too. Maybe that's why bush's job approval is declining.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

both out of relation to the cost of a barrel of oil
The cost of a barrel of oil is what the market will pay for it. Just like the value of Gold, Diamonds, etc., has no relationship to what it costs to extract.<br /><br />
I say, screw the share holder
Well, that's basically communism - screw the owner(s). Who knows, if you own any mutual funds you probably hold some oil stocks.<br /><br />You start screwing people who put capital at risk and you'll find yourself standing in lines, out-of-control prices, slowed progress, etc.
 
D

DJ

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

It's only a scandal if you don't work for them.
 

deputydawg

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Re: Exxon Mobil record profit forecast

OK, here is a question nobody has been able to get a good answer for.<br /><br />We have been able to make gas (ethonal) out of corn for years. We have been able to make deisel out of soybeans for years. Ethonal plants are going up 2 or 3 a year in this state. The price per galon of ethonal is half that of gasoline. It burns cleaner, cooler, and more eficeint. It is better for the environment.<br /><br />Now we have farmers going broke every month. Small farms are being sold at an alarming rate to coorperate owned farms. The government has a surplus of corn and has been paying farmers not to grow for years. The government even went to trading grain for oil a few years back.<br /><br />It is even possible to make alcohol that will burn and run great and clean in a car by using potatos. If you con't believe this, check around with moonshine production. I know someone that has a still and makes feul for his race cars. The potato fuel or whiskey does not produce much leftover waste, and the potatos can be used after for animal feed. Also check with any prison to see how the inmates are making their hooch. Same thing.<br /><br />Now with this in mind, why do we not start prducing feul from grains? You can start buying the almost straight ethonal or grain alcohol fuel at some stations around here, and it is still today priced under $2. It will run in newer cars. Older cars you would have to lean out the fuel mixture to run it. <br /><br />With farmers going broke (the bacbone of our society), and oil producers making record profits, you can't tell me that the oil industry has no control over our government. It has been this way through many many administrations, so GW is not the only sell out.
 
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