evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

[aerobat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hKoQCkRryc

what do you think about it? i am by myself a 150 evinrude ficht ram owner , but nevertheless i think it cannot be. in this test the evinrude just plays in another league. but 225 hp are 225 hp , regardless by what technology they are developed- and yamaha is not a newbie in outboards.

if this test is real the only answer could be that the 4 stroke yamaha has a dramatic lack of torque at low rpms and so is unable to get the boat to plane and screw itself to higher revs. or is is just a marketing film for evinrude?

best regards

 

[JB]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

or is is just a marketing film for evinrude?

best regards

You wouldn't expect BRP to feature any advantage of the Yammy, now, would you??

 

[seahorse5]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

Somewhere on a boating site a while back, there was the torque curve of both motors published. The E-TEC had a lot more mid-range torque than the Yamaha. That gave the E-TEC an advantage in the "tug of war" , when skiing, or when instant power is needed. At the top end, the output of both motors was very close.

 

[crablegs]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

Looks rigged to me!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

I did not go to both web sites to check gear ratios and prop sizes but 4-strokes generally need a bit more gear in the lower unit to provide acceptable hole shot. So that's one factor that may not be common between the two. The differences in props may also produce a signficant difference in hole shot. IF and I repeat IF, the Yammy was able to get the boat on plane speed would likely have been closer to the E-tec since the power band is different between the two engines. On another boat the Yammy may have been able to plane and while still suffering a little hole shot difference, once on plane the two engines would be more equal. I suspect Evinrude picked the boat to test that would put the Yammy at a distinct disadvantage.

 

[aerobat]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

are there some torque curves published for outboards? it would be interesting to see. maybe its true that the boat was choosen heavy enough that the yamaha was unable to put it on plane by his midrange torque where the evinrude has it most advantage.

i am simply wondering seeing this video since that are both 225 hp engines. and like said- at top end 225 horses are 225 horses on the prop, regardless how many strokes are used to produce them.

maybe the superior midrange torque on a heavy and hard getting to plane boat is evinrudes key in this video.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

Looks rigged to me!

Several years back, Evinrude set up several boats like this and had reps take them around the country for dealers and prospective customers to try out. Anyone could try anything they wanted on how to make the Yamaha plane out the boat on one motor. Both were propped out correctly, there were no gimmicks and the rigging and setup was documented by an individual consulting engineer who did not work for either company.

I ran the boat several times over the years. Whether there were 2 people in the boat or 10 people in the boat, the results were the same.

 

[aerobat]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

so what...? a 225 horsepower yamaha has no chance to plane it out where a 225 horsepower evinrude shoots it out of the water with no problems?

looking at this video we do not talk about minor differences and lets dont forget we talk about engines with the same HP.

i can confirm with my 150hp ficht ram a stunning hole shot performance but it seems odd to me that its this difference. truly strange.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

so what...? a 225 horsepower yamaha has no chance to plane it out where a 225 horsepower evinrude shoots it out of the water with no problems?

looking at this video we do not talk about minor differences and lets dont forget we talk about engines with the same HP.

i can confirm with my 150hp ficht ram a stunning hole shot performance but it seems odd to me that its this difference. truly strange.

It's not really unusual so much as the video makes it dramatic. Four-strokes simply cannot match a two-stroke for hole shot...Everything else being equal.

 

[ziemann]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

It's more about the RPM each outboard makes their peak horsepower and the torque available for hole shot.

Torque gets you moving- Horsepower keeps you there....

 

[cfauvel]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

Several years back, Evinrude set up several boats like this and had reps take them around the country for dealers and prospective customers to try out. Anyone could try anything they wanted on how to make the Yamaha plane out the boat on one motor. Both were propped out correctly, there were no gimmicks and the rigging and setup was documented by an individual consulting engineer who did not work for either company.

I ran the boat several times over the years. Whether there were 2 people in the boat or 10 people in the boat, the results were the same.

And the results were?

Oh guess the same as the video, right?

 

[seahorse5]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

And the results were?

Oh guess the same as the video, right?

Yep, everyone in the boat gets to drive it and do whatever they want to try to make the results come out differently, but end result never changes.

Just to be a smart *** - I left the Yamaha tilted down so it dragged in the water while the E-TEC worked to get the boat on plane. It took a lot longer but the boat managed to get up around 25mph with the Yamaha gearcase dragging and the E-TEC chugging along.

Here is a torque chart of both motors.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

Is that torque curve why the Yamaha 4-stroke has the designation of "F"225???????

 

[aerobat]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

we have to understand what torque is and what relation it has to power. torque is the twisting force of the turning crankshaft, power is the product of what force the engine gives at what rpm. having a torque value you can easily calculate the power at any given rpm- the formula is ( torque in ft-lb ) torque x rpm / 5252 .

so basicly you can achieve a given power output with low torque and high rpm or high torque and low rpm.

at the torque chart given here we see that the evinrude gives massive torque up to high rpms and this results that at the etec 225 only the placard is "225" . calculating this numbers results that the evinrude has a power peak of 241hp at 5500 rpm, at peak torque at 4500 rpm it yet developes impressive 230 hp.

the yamaha due to this chart peaks in power at about 6000rpm - but with low 217hp. at peak TQ which also occours at 4500 the output af the yamaha is 184hp.

so when this chart is true the evinrude 225 has easily more that 225 hp and the yamaha hardly reaches the rated output. in midrange , at rpm where peak torque occours and important for holeshots, the etec would have an advantage of more than 40 hp!!!

this may solve the situation in the video since the comparision is between engines with "225" placards, but the evinrude has according to the given chart a lot more than 225 hp.

best regards

 

[Ithica DB]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

I am a little concerned that I was not driving it. It looked to me the Yammy was tilted a little on take off, it seemed to wable some. With the rude I did not see a side shot till it was at plane.
Yes there should be a difference but lets take all into acount. How many times do I need to go from o to 60 in split seconds only pulling skiiers. I will take the gas savings, less repairing, quiet, and no more two cycle oil on my hands and boat. I cann't wait to get my first! I am out of two stroke engines for good I hope. If you need a 90hp buy a 115hp it will still save money and aggervation in the long run.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

and no more two cycle oil on my hands and boat.

.

Just out of curiosity, how much oil do you get on your hands when draining the Yamaha crankcase oil, replacing the drain plug and gasket, and removing the hot oil filter? Then you have to pour over 6 quarts into the motor plus there is the time and hassle to dispose of the old oil in an environmently safe manner. Don't forget wiping up any spilled oil inside the motor cover that invariably leaks from removing the filter.

 

[cfauvel]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

Just out of curiosity, how much oil do you get on your hands when draining the Yamaha crankcase oil, replacing the drain plug and gasket, and removing the hot oil filter? Then you have to pour over 6 quarts into the motor plus there is the time and hassle to dispose of the old oil in an environmently safe manner. Don't forget wiping up any spilled oil inside the motor cover that invariably leaks from removing the filter.

yeah I agree the messy oil argument doesn't hold water. I'd like to see the NOX readings from both...but to be honest it doesn't matter, if I had the money, i'd get the ETEC in a heart beat, 2stroke power and quiteness and, fuel economy and environmentally friendlyness of a 4-stroke....to me a no brainer

 

[ziemann]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

Can't we all just get along??? LOLOL

Aerobat- I am blaming you for picking off this scab.... Please put the Genie back in to the bottle....

What next?? Are we going to debate the best 2 stroke oil next? (Amsoil is obviously the best oil on the market)

OK, OK....I am tired and bored at work....

 

[Ithica DB]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

Just out of curiosity, how much oil do you get on your hands when draining the Yamaha crankcase oil, replacing the drain plug and gasket, and removing the hot oil filter? Then you have to pour over 6 quarts into the motor plus there is the time and hassle to dispose of the old oil in an environmently safe manner. Don't forget wiping up any spilled oil inside the motor cover that invariably leaks from removing the filter.

In all my motors I change the oil once a year, period. I however take care of some other boats as well and before I go fishing my hands are going to get two stroke oil on them. In fact I am heading out of here and getting a can of gas then measuering out the oil that goes in it and filling another boats reserve with two stroke, this is weekly. I guess I could buy those 16oz oil contaners but where would I get rid of all those, we use gallons of oil. My oil gets recycled can you do the same with yours? Find another argument, sorry I can resist an explanation

 

[aerobat]

Re: evinrude vs yamaha... is it real or fake?

@ ziemann : well... its a question if i have enough torque for screwing the bottle that the genie stays in

@ ithica : surely every engine design has advantages and disatvantages. the question was not what is better- 2 stroke or 4 stroke -but how can it be that such the difference between nominal same hp engines exists.

for me runnign a 150 ficht ram - when i fill the oil tank it runs very long with it, surely there is no need for filling before every trip. how do you recycle used engine oil?