Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

[brianjohnson]

Good afternoon all.

I am seeking some help with a recently acquired Evinrude 4 Deluxe, model BE4RDLCOB, Serial No, B002349.

It originally had starting and idle problems - would only run on half choke. With a carb clean and a new set of plugs, it's a good deal better but still will not idle and as the engine starts to die, no amount of throtle twisting will keep it going. The idle screw position seems correct.

After it dies, it takes some time to restart. I have been advised that the 'next steps' are to change the inline fuel filter and service the fuel pump. The filter seems completely clear (though I do have one on order) but there does not seem to be a separate fuelpump - just what is described as a 'bladder' within the carb. Happy to exchange info and send photos if this could help

best regards

Brian

 

[Rick.]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Hello Brian.

Could you have a second look at your model number. I'm thinking you have an 80 -4HP but cant find one with a twist throttle. I doubt you have a fuel pump if it is the one with the tank on the top. Best of luck. Rick.

 

[brianjohnson]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Hello Rick and thanks for the response.

The model number is correct as BE4RDLCO(or 0)B. The makers plate also includes the legend Outboard Marine Belgium. And you are right in that it has an integral fuel tank. The engine cover suggests a fuel mixture of 100:1 though I believe that was quickly changed to 50:1 on leaving the factory. There is a vacum (?) tube that enters the carb along with the fuel line - I though that this might be associated with fuel delivery.

There's no kill switch that I can locate ...

Regards, Brian

 

[Rick.]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

My bad. It is indeed a 1985 not 1980. I would suggest getting a spray bottle with fuel mix in it and while running keep spraying enough fuel into the carb. intake to see if it continues to run. If it does it would point to a fuel delivery issue. Also get a spark gap test tool and check for spark with a 1/4 inch gap set. Spark should be blue/white and snappy. You're right 50/1 is the correct mix. Your slow speed needle should be 1 1/2 turns out from gently seated. Did you put new parts into the carb. of just clean it? Did you remove the high speed nozzle and clean it? Enough questions for now. I would also recommend you check your compression just so you have a bench mark and replace the fuel line from tank to carb. with new. You can find your engine here and all it's parts except anything to do with Deluxe might be excluded. Do you have a tiller throttle or the dial on the cowling? I thought I said enough questions. Rick.
BRP -- Parts Catalogs

 

[brianjohnson]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Hi Rick,

I'll try all those things. I have cleaned the carb thoroughly including the high speed nozzle though did not install any new parts. I also sprayed in some 'carb cleaner' whilst the engine was running.

As you suggest, the parts list does not seem to cover the 4 Deluxe - for example, the carbs shown in the parts list don't appear to have a vacum tube connection or 'bladder'. I also noticed that the 1985 models in the parts list show a points ignition system whereas my ignition appears to be somewhat more modern - for example, there is a unit marked CD2, part number 582508 (a coil pack?) ..

The engine has a tiller with a twistgrip. There is a knob on the end of the tiller which does turn though it's stiff - also the legend 'STOP' on the end - might be a seized button ... I havetried to attach two photos if this helps ...

Thanks for your continuing support and best regards

Brian

 

[tomhath]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

The STOP button is just that, a button that stops the engine (if it's closed it will ground the ignition to kill the spark). It might have a plastic spacer under the button which would normally be tied to a short string to the operator's wrist to kill the engine if you fall overboard.

Spraying carb cleaner into the carburetor while it's running doesn't do anything, the throat is just sucking air and doesn't get gummed up. It sounds like you might have either a plugged fuel filter or a problem with the carb's float. Easiest way to check is to take the bowl off the bottom of the carb and let gas drain out, it should be a steady stream. If all you get is a feeble drip (likely based on your symptoms) track back form the float to the tank to find where it's restricted.

 

[brianjohnson]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Rick,

That spaying fuel into the carb orifice is really interesting. It picks up immediately - one can actually rev the engine using the spray! I take it that this points directly to a fuel supply problem - any further direction other than replacing the fuel filter and line as suggested?

Thanks, Brian

 

[brianjohnson]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Thanks Both,

Disconnecting the fuel line at the carb and dropping it to a level lower than the tank results in a gush of fuel from the carb end of the fuel line. I think this suggests that the filter is OK and that the problem is in the carb somewhere? With this engine, the fuel bowl can't be taken off until the carb is removed - I'll take it off again. I had previously checked the float, the fuel valve operated by the float and so on - all seemed OK. What's intriguing me is that the engine is fine at higher revs so I guess there's sufficient overall fuel flow from half to full revs ....

Regards, Brian

 

[Rick.]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Progress is being made! That's good news for sure. Could be your slow speed circuit in the carb. isn't clean enough yet or it could be the needle setting. Is it 1 1/2 turns out? That's just your start point, once running you may need to open/close it for ideal performance. In you case opening sounds like the direction I would first go about an 1/8th of a turn at a time with 20 second intervals. Also if the needle packing nut isn't tight it might be sucking air around the needle which will give poor performance issues. Good call on eliminating the tank/filter/valve/hose as a possible obstruction. It really points to the carb. now with the gas spray bottle improving the performance. I'm not sure what your plan for this motor is. These 4 HP motors are a real treasure IMO and a deluxe would make it an absolute gem in my mind. Mine are lesser featured and no neutral (always in gear). If you're going to keep it I would strongly suggest a new carb. kit would be sound investment. At the very least I would put in new needle packing washers, and a needle and seat. I think that will fix your problem but hey, no guarantees here. No matter, don't ignore the things I said in my first reply. It's all important but results often steer you away from the other stuff. A four will run fantastic and smooth on one cylinder for instance. They just lack power when only running on one. Rick.

 

[EddiePetty]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

....as your progress marches on:

Many of these carbs have transition ports in the roof of the throat just aft of the butterfly. These ports provide supplemental fuel at throttle settings between idle and WOT. To access then, remove the carb, stand it on the choke end, open the butterfly completely and observe the top of the bore. You should see two or three very small ports (holes). Clean them out with an appropriate sized burning tip cleaner and compressed air. Normally there is a Welsh plug to access the gallery where the ports receive fuel. You may encounter a problem obtaining a replacement plug, though I have expoxied many a one that I could not replace.

 

[brianjohnson]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

I see what Eddie means about the transition ports - didn't know there was anything there until I followed his instructions. They loook clear. Is the "burning tip cleaner" like the prickers once used to clean the jets in blowlamps? I will try that. The needle valve seems quite sharp but as Rick suggests, I will change that, the packing washers and separately the float valve - changing the the needle valve seat seems to imply the removal of the plug (like a piece of lead fishing shot?) which looks tricky.

Lastly, I do wonder about the integral carb fuel punp. It consists of an orange bladder in the fuel flow (seems OK) and an associated vacum pipe from the crankcase(?). Can anyone suggest how to check that system?

Thanks all - we do seem to be getting there!

Brian

 

[Rick.]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

I was thinking he meant an oxy/actelene torch tip cleaner. You need to be very careful to clean them without enlarging the ports. Just to be clear, I would not replace the slow speed needle unless it is in bad condition. They are too expensive. What I meant was the float needle and seat inside the carb. About a five dollar item but if it is sticking it will shut off the fuel (or not shut it off). I am totally unaware of the orange bladder you speak of. It would be a good idea to wait and see what others say about it and it's function. My 80 is a gravity feed integral tank and it does not have a bladder in the carb.
Rick.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

your carb has the welch plug on top, which has to be removed to properly clean the idle circuit, i wouldnt use a torch tip cleaner tho, a small diameter piece of copper wire will work, and not enlarge the tiny holes . i am intrigued about the orange bladder tho, i can see from the pics that there is no fuel pump where there should be one? and can see the pulse line heading towards the front of the motor. it must have a connector for an external tank or there would be no need for a pump. the bladder must be tiny if its in the carb! not much room there.

edit: your motor appears to be a 1986

 

[brianjohnson]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Hello All,

Here's a link to a diagram of my carb .. I believe that the pulse from the crank is used in conjunction with the bladder (part 32) to act as a fuel pump. Looks like one could use either an integral or remote tank with this engine ... how would one normally test that vacuum line without the engine running? The welch plug ... is that the circular plate - about a 1/3rd of an inch across or the smaller shot?

Evinrude Carburetor Parts for 1994 3hp E3RERE Outboard Motor

 

[StormDK]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Number 5. in the diagram for your carburator.

 

[EddiePetty]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Hello All,

Here's a link to a diagram of my carb .. I believe that the pulse from the crank is used in conjunction with the bladder (part 32) to act as a fuel pump. Looks like one could use either an integral or remote tank with this engine ... how would one normally test that vacuum line without the engine running? The welch plug ... is that the circular plate - about a 1/3rd of an inch across or the smaller shot?

Evinrude Carburetor Parts for 1994 3hp E3RERE Outboard Motor

Piece #5 is the expansion plug (welsh plug) above the junction of the transition ports. Piece #32 is commonly called a Duckbill and in most cases is used as a check valve (think air vent in the gas cap of hand-held 2 cyl. Engines)

 

[brianjohnson]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Back several steps ... Used an airgun to clear all the jets. Before reassembly and as advised by my local marine engineers, dropped some carb cleaner into all the orifices. Result, it will only run whilst fuel is squirted into the carb. I wonder if I have moved the original blockage into somewhere more vital. Heigh- ho off comes the carb again!

 

[Crosbyman]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Back several steps ... Used an airgun to clear all the jets. Before reassembly and as advised by my local marine engineers, dropped some carb cleaner into all the orifices. Result, it will only run whilst fuel is squirted into the carb. I wonder if I have moved the original blockage into somewhere more vital. Heigh- ho off comes the carb again!

the idle circuit which feeds gas to those little drip holes(3) at the bottom the upper chamber, travels UP from the float bowl along the side of the carb.

it is very important that the proper gasket be used AND POSITIONNED properly so as not to obstruct fuel flow to the upper chamber!

really clean that problem "idle" circuit with carb cleaner and lots of air pressure .. make certain the carb cleaner flows prperly and fills the drip hole chamber.

does the engine run any better with fuel cap off ( you indicated a tank on top motor) if so,
find and clean the cap vents !!

 

[brianjohnson]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

Hello All,

All my tests have been undertaken with the filler cap removed from the fuel tank.

I removed the carb again today, checked the assembly and reinstalled but no luck - still won't start - will only run whilst squirting fuel into the mouth of the carb. Whilst the carb was off, I tried to operate the fuel pump by sucking and blowing into the far end of the vacuum/pulse line - didn't really seem to do anything though I can confirm that the vacum line is clear - I do accept that this whole fuel pump area could all just be a red herring. I'll take apart again tomorrow and take an air line to all the ports.

Regards, Brian

 

[nwcove]

Re: Evinrude 4 Idle Problem

did you actually re-kit the carb or just dissasemble and blow air through the ports? if so, the carb needs to soaked overnight in carb cleaner ( i use pine-sol dilluted 50/50 with water), then run a tiny strand of wire through every passage...with the welch plug out!, then hit the passages with carb cleaner spray , then compressed air. after that its time to add the parts from the kit and check for proper float operation. ( carb upright and level....you should be able to blow into the fuel inlet. carb upside down and level....you should not be able to blow into the fuel inlet)