Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

mark in new jersey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Sep 7, 2011
Messages
167
Not trying to sound dramatic, but this voyage might be coming to a rapid conclusion.

Earlier this year, I had the chance to buy a 14' Century SeaFlyte in AA++ condition for an extremely-reasonable price. This was a driving motivator in restoring my Grandmother's old engine.

By the time I could pony up the $$$, the owner had decided to remove it from the market. Certainly it's not the "only old boat in the world", but it was what drove me, no doubt.

Anyway, this is about my 15th thread about the restoration of an old 15012, and as noted in my most recent thread, I've gotten it to the point that "it runs"...

...if only it were that simple.

- Undetected until now, the intake manifold is cracked at the 1/8"NPT pressure port, so oily gas is spewing all over the place.

- the main crankcase halves (which I didn't disturb during the refurb) are "wet" along the seams. Both sides. That will require a major tear-down, with no guarantee that it "only" needs a gasket.

- There's a oily ooze around the top of the swivel bracket, telling me that there's a bad seal at / near the lower end of the crank.

- it really doesn't run all that great in the first place, so there's a lot of tweaking left to do. Add to that the oily mess of "an old 2-stroke" [I can see why some lakes have banned them!], and I'm faced with......

.....with reality: I've already sunk a lot of dough into this "labor of love", and I don't even own a boat. How much further down this rabbit hole do I want to go?

I'm strongly leaning towards cutting my losses & calling it a day. And until / unless I can find a new intake manifold, I'm going "nowhere fast" anyway.

I think the time has come to strongly ask myself how much further do I want to go, and I think I already know the logical answer.

This is not a "pity post", and I am not looking for a pep talk. What I'm looking for is a cold, hard reality check: Engines do, indeed, die...blow...and when they do, they enter the world of "parts donors". Is that what I have in my hands?

Sure....with enough money I could do a complete, 100% re-manufacturing of the whole thing. Likewise, with enough money, I could put the great pyramids on the moon, too...brick-by-brick. But (in each case)...why?

Unless someone has a compelling reason to the contrary, I'm pulling the plug on this project.
 

nwcove

Admiral
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

quote:"- Undetected until now, the intake manifold is cracked at the 1/8"NPT pressure port, so oily gas is spewing all over the place.

- the main crankcase halves (which I didn't disturb during the refurb) are "wet" along the seams. Both sides. That will require a major tear-down, with no guarantee that it "only" needs a gasket.

- There's a oily ooze around the top of the swivel bracket, telling me that there's a bad seal at / near the lower end of the crank.

- it really doesn't run all that great in the first place, so there's a lot of tweaking left to do. Add to that the oily mess of "an old 2-stroke" [I can see why some lakes have banned them!], and I'm faced with......"

-a replacement intake manifold would be quite easy and cheap to find.
-wet along the seams of the crank case halves....i personally woudnt worry bout it.
-oily ooze around the top of the swivel bracket.....par for the course with the oldies
-mess of an old two stroke? ...it wont be nearly as messy if it ever gets to the lake.
-i can see why some lakes banned them......the sad fact about a two stroke ban is....one rain event dumps more poison into your lake than every 2 stroke on your lake could in your lifetime.

...and wasnt it "gramps" old motor???

jmo
 

tjhamms

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
38
Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

I'm looking for a winter project !
 

oldcatamount

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

The isssues you've described are the "normal" for me and my hobby. It sounds like no ones going to persuade you that these issues are easy fixes. The diagnosis is the tough part and can discourage all of us here. The oily mess you mentioned is the main reason I love working on old outboard motors. I take some pride in fixing an oily old motor and tune it so it's not so oily anymore. There are guys on this site that can tune an outboard like a piano string and that is my goal. It's very easy to go out and buy another "cleaner" motor but I like the challange and I like the result of a clean running two stroke, but, if you don't have the passion for restoring old things, I guess a newer motor is the way to go.
 

HighTrim

Supreme Mariner
Joined
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Messages
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Geesh dont let a little intake manifold ruin things, Im sure I have 15 or 20 laying around, Ill send you one if you PM me your address.

Regarding the rest, I can promise things look better once she is running. Just keep it simple, dont overthink, and listen to the advice on the forum and you will have her running like clockwork!
 

F_R

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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Mark, with all due respect, I don't think you are meant to have an old motor. I mean, if a little bit of oil leakage bothers you, you won't ever be happy with it. That's the way they were back 60 years ago, and nobody paid any attention. And yes the world actually did survive, believe it or not.

In the first place, that lower crankshaft seal you are concerned about doesn't even exist. Not only that, it actually has crankcase drains that deliberatly dump oil out in that area. Ok, you may have a leaking gasket which lets you see it, but even if the gasket didn't leak, the drainage would go out the bottom of the swivel tube, and into the lake. Actually, your 15 is a cleaner engine than many others of the era.

Crankcase seam leaking: Well, no it isn't supposed to leak, but other than the mess it won't hurt anything.

I can understand that you probably grew up in the Don't Be a Litterbug age, and just do not understand how the world used to be. But for us old guys, we enjoy restoring those old classics and yes we do run them. I don't think we actually do pollute the lake, but life's too short to argue about it. As for you, I'm sure you would feel much better running a new 4-stroke.

Just my humble opinion, and not meant to embarrass or devalue you in any way. In any case, I hope you will continue to enjoy boating and the great outdoors and feel good about it.
 

phillnjack2

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Apr 30, 2011
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

if we dont pollute and dont smoke and dont eat what is supposed otbe bad for us, and dont drop litter
what areall the people who are employed to clean up after us supposed to do for a job !!!!
plus the smell of 2 stroke is nice, the sound of a 2 stroke is sweet. the noise of the older engines is something you get used to.

I would carry on and repair it to the best you can and enjoy the engine.

it will be herestill going when todays engines have been melted down.

ive got an old 1969 seagull, now there is a polluter who stinks and drips oil everywhere, is so noisey you just dont bother trying to talk to anyone in the boat untill you stop.
But it keeps on going no mater what i do to it.

old engines dont die,but sometimes its very hard to get them out of hibernation ha ha




phill
 

82rude

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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

mark ,that motor is postivelly new .how about a 1939 22.5 hp that has a mixture of about 16;1 or so,lol.:D carry on with the project bud.
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

1949 Speedster, 8:1 Even at that, there was no "bathtub ring" around the shoreline.
 

FlaCowboy

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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Keep working on the motor for no other reason than "it belonged to your Grandmother"...!!!

I wish I had something like that from either of my Grandparents...;)
 

mark in new jersey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

I wrote what I did after a few frustrating hours of accomplishing little more than making a thick, black, oily ring around the inside of my bucket. While it was running, the oil/water was splashing all over the driveway making a mess [and an unimpressed wife] & the blue smoke was so thick as to be opaque.

In short, I wasn't in a great frame-of-mind when I wrote what I did, and the cracked manifold only served to really push me over the edge.

So: if you've all huddled up & nominated me for the "drama queen award", I plead guilty and accept your nomination! :)

With HighTrim's offer to send a replacement manifold (Thank you very much!!), and with the knowledge that a cleaner, modern TCW3 synthetic will not be as bad of a horror show (I was using SAE30), and with the understanding that the surface of a small bucket in no way represents "a lake", I'm prepared to step up & see this project through to *some* sort of conclusion.

F_R: I have no issue with what you wrote; still, I'd like to believe that I could be very happy with an old engine. That said, I have no frame of reference, so I don't know if my engine was dumping "a little bit of oil leakage" {your words} or if it was bleeding a disproportionately due to bigger engine issues.

I'm told that 16:1 is unnecessarily oily and that 24:1 is fine....that, coupled with modern oil, might clean things up to an un-objectionable level such that I can move forward in good conscience.

(should have seen the bucket; it looked like the Exxon Valdez spill.)

Anyway, I'm going to continue the project & see if I can make things better. I've come a long way. I guess it's too late to turn back!
 

Chinewalker

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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

I've got a manifold for you, too... PM if interested.
 

mark in new jersey

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Wow...the generosity here is heartwarming!

I've already traded some PMs with HighTrim and he's sending one from his parts stock.

But thank you very much for your offer,

mn
 

nwcove

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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

good to see you took a breather from it mark. sometimes that is necessary to get a second wind. you were running 30wt oil in it?? no wonder it smoked alot and made a huge mess in your bucket!! ( it will still smoke alot , and make a mess in a bucket with modern ob oil, but it wont be nearly as bad). stick with it!!
 

Bwana Don

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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Sounds like you're back on track. I've been drama queen for a day myself, hey it happens.:redface:

Gotta love this community!
 

KathyD19

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

These guys on here know how frustrated I've been dealing with the "one step forward, two steps back" of my restoration. And I've been known to throw a screwdriver and a cuss word or two, so I think it's safe to say you don't have the corner on the "drama queen" title! Hang in there...it WILL be worth it. Not just in having a functioning motor but in the pride you'll feel when you realize how much you've learned and how much you accomplished. The best part is all the wonderful new friends you've made on here!

As far as the oily mess...yeah, that's a 2 cycle motor. I have always had Lawn Boy mowers and they do an excellent job of fogging for mosquitoes as I go along cutting the grass. That's just how they are. I too was appalled at the amount of smoke and stink coming from my motor when I first got it running in a bucket in my driveway...was certain the neighbors were going to run me out of town if I didn't shut it down soon. I worried that when I was on the lake, I'd be the laughing stock with my smokey, noisy, stinky old motor. But when you're on the lake...you can't see any of that 2 cycle smoke at all! Moving along, the breeze and the water flow keep it all at bay so it's not an issue. The noise is the biggest issue; you really can't carry on a conversation with it roaring away. But for myself, I prefer taking my boat out alone and just enjoying the weather and scenery...I don't want to talk.

I have a personal reason for getting my boat out on the water again, it was my dad's and he's since passed away. But I also really love how well the older things were built and how they aren't made to self-destruct like new stuff is.

Keep the faith and return to this forum when you need a boost. The guys on here are amazing!!!!!:D
 

leslielbk

Seaman
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Jun 8, 2011
Messages
56
Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

What a heartwarming thread. Mark, I'm "restoring" (actually, just trying to get it running) a 1956 Johnson Javelin. I bought the boat & motor for $650 7 years ago, it ran kinda sorta, and since hauling it to Florida it's sat for 6 years. The carb fell out of it when I was towing it through Tennessee, and I took it to a boat service station where it sat for a year while the guys there looked for a carb. Not. Somebody finally brought in an old motor and they put it in, but it's not the exact same part, so someone here said "that's not original!" but it would probably work anyway. It does, but doesn't stay running. More sleuthing, and found water in the pressurized gas tank, so emptied that out, put new 24:1 TW3 in, but it still wouldn't stay running because the gasket on top of the tank was rotted, so it wouldn't hold pressure. I was told to replace the fuel lines too in case there's gunk in there to make it worse. I took apart & fixed the control box using a diagram I found here. I work on it when I can, I've learned a ton about how the thing works which is actually fun, and I get all of the help here. Kathy's way ahead of me & I turn to her for an atta boy and advice, along with Chris & a whole bunch of other people smarter than me. With this forum, you can literally do everything you need to do, and it's really fun to read someone else's post and see what they're doing. That's how I came across yours, and I love what everyone has said to you. It's a hobby, work on it when you can, and edge your way toward your goal. It already sounds like you're back in the game, and I applaud you!!!
 

nwcove

Admiral
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May 16, 2011
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

great to see you back Leslie! and great to see you're still getting acquainted with your motor! hopefully all is well with mark, they took quite a hit from the storm, and his next post will be a video of his motor purring away!
 

kodibass

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Apr 10, 2010
Messages
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Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

baby steps, go to boat salvage yards just to look around, who knows what ya mite find and its a great way to spend a beautiful day. bet if ya do you will come home with some parts Cheap and will think how much fun you had, take along a friend, young person etc. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FUN!!!
 

leslielbk

Seaman
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Jun 8, 2011
Messages
56
Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Re: Evinrude 15012...I'm at a crossroads & this *might* be my last thread on iBoats

Thanks, NW!! I made the mistake of continuing a thread I'd started about one thing and staying on it to ask new questions about something else. Now I know, and I'll start a new thread if it's something I can't find in the forum. I'm still at it, one little step at a time. I ain't givin' up!! She's mine, and I'm in for the long haul. I'm working on the oxidation while I wait for my gas tank gaskets and hose. Onward & upward!!:)
 
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