Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

Bubba1235

No longer on Forums
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
588
Ok, before ranting I will say I really DO understand that every taxing authority is being hard pressed to bring in revenue given the current economy and in general going after tax cheats is a good way to do it. I will also agree that my small county (total population 2000) is seeing some hard times and needs every buck they can find. I may not love taxes but I DO understand the need for them.

In my state (MO) we have what they call personal property tax. Don't confuse this with real estate property (land/home). This is where you buy something, pay the income tax on the money used to buy it, pay the sales taxes on it and then once a year pay taxes on it for the right to own it. Things like cars, tractors, trailers, boats, riding mowers, etc. come under this law. When you own it also comes into play. If you own it on December 31 you owe personal property tax on it for that year.

Ok, so what has me going nuts about it? If you read my post back at Christmas my wife and I gave a family in need a mobile home and the community got together and moved it to their property and everyone pitched in to clean, paint and set it all up for them. (Still one of the best things I've ever been involved in.)

The issue is that I removed it from my personal property statement that has to be sent to the county each year to compute my taxes. Mo. treats mobile homes strangely in that it can be owned as a motor vehicle or it can be owned as a home with a deed like any other home. Switching from one to the other is a can of worms no one wants to open and I had it as an unlicensed motor vehicle. (Like holding the title on a car that is never driven so no reason to put plates on it.)

When I took it off my property statement the county clerk asked if I had sold it. (Sales tax wanted.) I explained the entire story and that it was given away as a gift. Apparently that is one of the favored ways people get around taxes, I got a notice I was being audited and to please set up a time to meet with the county clerk. Did it and went to the meeting and again explained what we did.

That wasn't good enough and questions like "Are you certain you didn't sell it for cash under the table", and "Why would anyone give away a home to someone you aren't even related to", and "Is the person you gave it to working off the books to pay for it" as well as several other "suggestions" that we were working together to avoid taxation. The real clincher in their eyes was that I didn't try to take any sort of deduction on my regular taxes for a charitable gift. (I didn't think it was worth the headaches and my accountant said it wasn't worth it.)

I made the horrible mistake of saying they could talk to anyone that helped to accomplish it and gave them names of everyone that had helped thinking that if they talked to everyone it would prove it was a gift and nothing more. Oh silly me! The county clerk has talked to each of them and now wants all of them to estimate how many man hours were involved so the county can estimate the ?value? and adjust the taxes on the folks we gave it to. (These people are not happy I gave the cleck their names.) On top of that, I have to pay all the back taxes/fees for all the years I did not buy license plates. Why? Because we told them we moved it ourselves which means we took it on the road without a license plate. Of course there are penalties involved when you have to go back several years. The clerk said, ?Look at the bright side, I?m not asking the state patrol to issue a ticket?.

No it?s not huge amounts of money (About $300) and I suspect if I wanted I could get an elected type animal involved and argue it but it?s not worth the hassle and time so I?ll pay the fees and fines but dang it just doesn?t feel right at all. Not even a little bit. I know the clerk is just doing her job and I suppose she is right and a lot of folks use ?gifts? to get around paying taxes but at some point doesn?t common sense and fairness come into play? Apparently the answer is no when it comes to a buck. Some days it feels like a guy just can't win. Sigh?
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

Terrible.
 

Huron Angler

Admiral
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
6,025
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

Unfortunately that seems like a whole lot of punishing good behavior.

You'd think folks would be just a little bit more willing to work with you since you and everyone involved acted out of pure "goodness". :(

As if nobody ever simply does things just to help a person out. This should not be an anomoly...but apparently it is.

Some world we live in.
 

rbh

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
7,939
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

I guess if I were being honest the license plate thing is my fault, I did know it didn't have plates and took it on the road thinking, "what could it hurt, we are only moving it a few miles on two lane county roads". Live and learn I guess.

Besides the plate issue you can take pride in the fact that you and the rest of your neighbours helped out someone that really needed it. Give yourself a pat on the back you deserve it.
 

PiratePast40

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
1,734
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

This seems to be a situation where 60 minutes or a similar show would want to do a segment. The flip side is that the people receiving the charity probably don't want or deserve the embarassment of being on national TV.
 

produceguy

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Messages
1,243
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

This is crazy.
Don't the tax payer pay her salary?
What a waste of your time and money.
Guess it's pretty slow at her office. I wonder how much time and money it took her to do a full investagation and to only come up with a 300$ fine, she should be demoted for wasting the states money.
 

rbh

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
7,939
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

This is crazy.
Don't the tax payer pay her salary?
What a waste of your time and money.
Guess it's pretty slow at her office. I wonder how much time and money it took her to do a full investagation and to only come up with a 300$ fine, she should be demoted for wasting the states money.

Fortunately or unfortunately the fine did pay for "HER" wages for the day.
 

bigdee

Commander
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
2,667
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

Don't you love it when the bureaucrats do our thinking for us? What is wrong with neighbors taking care of neighbors and why would the locals want to profit from that? Whoops may be crossing the line here....sorry
 

avenger79

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
1,792
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

it's crap like this that tends to make people a little less likely to help others in need.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

How hard is it to get 30,000 Pennies?
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,867
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

Oh, just wait till she finds out that the women folk involved, provided sandwiches and chips to the workers.

The health department and probably the cdc will get called in.


At the very least, this story needs to get written up in the regional op-ed page.
No names, just the story. You could even run it as fictional. The papers are always looking for something to fill space on the slow news days/weeks.
 

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
19,623
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

The flip side of this is, isn't it a shame the government agencies are so often fed a load of crap from people trying to get everything out of them they can that when a true story comes along they find it hard to believe ...

Maybe in reality it is not Bubba's fault, and it is not the agents fault, it is the 99 morons she had to deal with before she met Bubba ... just saying ...
 

bassman284

Commander
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
2,840
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

We live in a very small community (2000 for the entire county). It would bring a lot of nosey types into the lives of the people we gave the home to and that is the last thing they would want. Some times, you have to let well enough alone.


I live in a county of ~90,000 adjoining a county of ~180,000 and the "investigative journalists" here would jump on this like a duck on a june bug. They would send out "Team Coverage" and it would be "Top Story" for days. Bigger population just means way more nosy types. I agree, you want no part of that.
 

Woodnaut

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
634
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

Many good points made above, and I'm positive that this act of charity (and good efforts on the part of many) is what life is all about.

However, I think that at some point the County Clerk (or someone in the Clerk's office) needs to make a good decision on this matter. There is clearly no attempt to defaud the government in this matter. There is simply no substitute for good judgement.

Additionally, just because some other minor issues have been uncovered, there is still no need to press on these other matters. Again, it seems neither appropriate nor necessary. Once again we see that just because a person can do something, it doesn't mean that they should actually do it. It seems to me that the County Clerk's office needs to exercise reasonableness and sensibility. I think that the government expects us citizens to do the same.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

Poorly thought out and badly written laws often put bureaucrats (and some judges) in a bind. The law is the law and they must follow it, even when the law is written for good reasons and intent but fails to allow for some situations, like yours.

Don't blame the bureaucrat for bad laws, blame the legislators who wrote the ratzakratza law in the first place.
 

ezmobee

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
23,767
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

I don't. I think this could easily have been "overlooked" and specifically was not.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

Yeah ^^^^^^ I think so too. There is some unwritten lattitude everywhere, even prisons. There are risks, but in this case I doubt they are real.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,867
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

I would agree but I also know how desperate they are for revenue.

Or how desperate they are to spend revenues.

Like everyone else, they are gonna have to learn to live with a little less.
 

witenite0560

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
216
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

I would recommend you contact your State Legistature for your district, perhaps even your Congressman/woman, even try a letter to the Governor. You might be surprised. Might try contacting some local clergy, too. They may want to bring some pressures to bear, considering commendable actions like you took in helping someone in need is something most of them do somewhat routinely. They could find themselves getting hosed, like you, if they don't help you nip this in the bud! When it all shakes out, no matter how, look yourself in the mirror and smile back at someone who has done something good to make a difference to someone! My prayers and best wishes to you!
 

avenger79

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
1,792
Re: Every good deed... Or, why I hate government bureaucracy

the bad part is as he has already said, the more he complains about it the more likely they are to notice the people who received the help. suddenly the state will want taxes from them for the help they received. it will be looked upon as income or worse gift tax.
 
Top