Ethanol gas problems

[hdad3]

I have a 2006 Crest 2 with a Mercury optimax 115 (160hrs), according to the dealership the cause of the piston deteriorating and cylinder wall scaring was due to pre-detonation. Only one of the piston did this and the other two cylinders are fine, Mercury came and looked at the engine. According to Mercury this is my fault for using ethanol based gas and that they refuse to do anything to resolve this issue. I have had the o-ring for the fuel system replaced twice last year and was never notified until the last incident in October 2009 that I was to use a fuel stabilizer. Since day one when I bought the boat the dealership has maintained the boat for me, this includes all storage and winterization. The dealership and Mercury refuse to claim any responsibility for the engine. Is anyone else having similar problems with their engines, please let me know. These are the kind of things that make you not want to be a boat owner any more!!!!!!

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Pull out your owners manual and read it very carefully to see what it states about ethanol in the fuel.

Call the Factory and see if they have an area factory rep that will inspect the motor and talk to you.

This a an arguable case, depending on your attitude and that of the area rep it could go either way. Be reasonable, no anger, bite your tongue if necessary.

Grandma always said 'You catch more flies with sugar'. It's true!

Good Luck!

 

[hdad3]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Thanks,
Area Rep stopped by the Marina the other ( I was overseas for the military) day, no one at the marina stopped to call my wife and let her know he was at the Marina to evaluate my engine. He asked the mechanic at the Marina to see the spark plugs before he made his decision, but the mechanic couldn't find the spark plugs. He deemed the problem as being predetonation, because of the gas I used.My boat was only maintained by the Marina I bought it at since the day I purchased it. The Marina also winterized my boat and stored it inside for the winter. A replacement engine will cost me roughly $7000.00 or about $4000.00 to repair it. The military pays me, but not that well. Any idea's?
Thanks,
Gunny

P.S. The engine only has 160 hours on it.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

test your gasoline for the percentge,the test kit is 12 dollars.
if its below 10 % save the sample, call mercury on the consumer number, demand a date with the tech.
there is a reason we call them opti-pops.
piston detonation is caused by a lean fuel mix not ethanol.
the ethanol could loosen debris causing filter to clog and making it lean.
but by law that engine is compatible with up to 10% ethanol.
thats why I like yamaha, all they ever ask is where I want the powerhead shipped to.
my dealings with warrenty for merc and suzuki over the years was never pretty.
had a merc tech rep try to tell me a shorted plug would stil show a kilo voltage on my Kv tester and not fire the plug.
I told him he was a maroon.
if your fuel sample is less than 10% you have an incredibly arguable case.
buy two tester,test it at the marina,label them leave one with the marina.
have an autherized signatour at the marina sign both labels and you sign both.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

if the percentage is less than 10% they cannot blame the Efuel but already have,makes someone look foolish.
if the percentage is higher the fuel supplier now owes you an engine as by law if more than 10%,most states, it has to be clearly posted on the pump.
I have seen as high as 30% but the engine ran very poorly.
did not blow up though.

 

[hdad3]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Spoke with Mercury today Jennifer Ganz, she stated that the problem is due to predetonation and this could be caused by several things. One being timing and that this defect has not been determined and that Mercury refuses to do anything for me. Even if I was still under warranty this problem is not due to any manufacture assembly or faulty part. Mercury stated they don not know why this happened and will do nothing to make this situation right by the customer. WOW !!!! Thanks for buying my product that was a lemon now buy a new one and go away. Never again will I buy a Mercury or recommend a Mercury to a fellow service member.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Bottom line, the motor is out of warranty. Merc has no obligation to fix it so stop bashing Merc. The 06 Optimax was a piece of junk and you won't find many of them that have been used regularly without a new powerhead on them.

 

[Dave1027]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

... so stop bashing Merc. The 06 Optimax was a piece of junk ...

Don't bash 'em. Just accept that they make junk?

 

[hdad3]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Sorry gentlemen,
The US Marine (GySgt) in me says to stand on the wall and **** in the wind!!!! Have a nice day!!!

Gunny

 

[samm835]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

There isn't one spot in his last posting where he bashed Mercury.... a simple frustrated post about the service from Mercury....zero bashing. Dang ease up! HDAD3, I agree, I can see your frustration....sorry about the motor good luck! This probably isn't just with Mercury though, I am sure you would see the same from other Mfg's though....that does suck expecially in mid-summer, good luck!

 

[sschefer]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Sorry gentlemen,
The US Marine (GySgt) in me says to stand on the wall and **** in the wind!!!! Have a nice day!!!

Gunny

Pre-Detonation is caused by three things, low octane, too much timing advance or a too lean a condition. These can all lead to early detonation and complete combustion of the fuel before the piston reaches top dead center. This leaves no fuel in the squish band to cool the pistion.

In some cases the piston gets hot enough to cup in the center and can even burn through and other times the rings are fused to the ring lands and the edges of the piston melt.

Ethanol fuels achive whatever octane rating the pump says and it makes no difference if the reformulation is done with Ethanol or MTBE. It is not Ethanol causing your problem unless you're not running the recommend 89 or higher octane fuel as per the Merc Owners Manual.

Merc factory reps are pretty well trained in cause and effect of engine failure. The fact that one even came around to look at your motor say's they were willing to give you the benifit of the doubt. My guess is that his determination was low octane fuel and the assumption was made that Ethanol was the problem because the term octane rating was not understood.

FYI the 06 Merc Opti's were a problematic design... Do a little research and you'll find out that I'm not talking about Merc when I say that.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Pre-Detonation

Never heard of pre-detonation, preignition and detonation yep...

Never heard of 06 motors having many problems, majority of Opti problems was the 1999-early 2001 engines and all where 200 hp and above. The Optimax due to the way the fuel/air is shot into cup in piston is more likely to have pre-ignition than detonation...

 

[sschefer]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Pre-Detonation

Never heard of pre-detonation, preignition and detonation yep...

Never heard of 06 motors having many problems, majority of Opti problems was the 1999-early 2001 engines and all where 200 hp and above. The Optimax due to the way the fuel/air is shot into cup in piston is more likely to have pre-ignition than detonation...

Pre-Detonation - just trying to stick with what the OP was supposedly told. I can tell you're thinking the same thing I am about this...

FYI - 06 Yami Design/Merc Lawsuit year.. Ugly year but they kissed and made up ... the 2010 Opti's are awesome. Lots of rumours that Yami was building the Optis but not true they were just advising Merc on design. I've been looking for a new Skeeter and several had 06 Opti's with new powerheads hence the reason I did the research to find out what was up with that.

 

[hdad3]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Well sometimes in life standing on the wall pays off, Mercury Corporate called today> We we're able to come to a happy medium, Mercury has given me a discount on a rebuilt block and injectors. Happy to finally have some resolution concerning this matter. Spoke with the Marina who maintained my boat for the last six (6) years and since know one is for sure the root cause the Marina has declined to assist in the resolution of my boat motor. I am just happy that it is not going to cost me a arm and a leg to fix my boat, just a leg. I must say thank you Mercury for stepping up.

May be boating soon,
Gunny

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

FYI - 06 Yami Design/Merc Lawsuit year.. Ugly year but they kissed and made up ... the 2010 Opti's are awesome. Lots of rumours that Yami was building the Optis but not true they were just advising Merc on design.

Never heard of of this, the only time I know Yammi was involved was in the 01-03 EFI models and Opti was a Merc design. The Opti is less likely to have pre-ignition due to the injection system,crankshaft position sensor and timing controlled by ECU. The only problems I have seen with the small Optis is fuel pumps and injectors and I have 3 of these engines in drystack at my sublet shop...

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Ethanol gas problems

Well sometimes in life standing on the wall pays off, Mercury Corporate called today> We we're able to come to a happy medium, Mercury has given me a discount on a rebuilt block and injectors. Happy to finally have some resolution concerning this matter. Spoke with the Marina who maintained my boat for the last six (6) years and since know one is for sure the root cause the Marina has declined to assist in the resolution of my boat motor. I am just happy that it is not going to cost me a arm and a leg to fix my boat, just a leg. I must say thank you Mercury for stepping up.

May be boating soon,
Gunny

Glad to hear that you were able to come to an agreeable solution.