epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

lime4x4

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The orignal glass thickness over my stringers is a 1/4 inch. How many layers of biaxle cloth can i safely lay at one time? I'll be buying 36 inch by 50 yard rolls. I know i can't lay a 3 feet wide peice at once. How do u guys lay down a long peice of cloth? My goal is to lay as much glass as possible to avoid as much sanding in between as possible. Does using epoxy at a lower temp help? The boat is outside covered with a tarp. On a 30 deg day and portable heater i can get the temp around 50 deg or so.
 

drewpster

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

The orignal glass thickness over my stringers is a 1/4 inch. How many layers of biaxle cloth can i safely lay at one time? I'll be buying 36 inch by 50 yard rolls. I know i can't lay a 3 feet wide peice at once. How do u guys lay down a long peice of cloth? My goal is to lay as much glass as possible to avoid as much sanding in between as possible. Does using epoxy at a lower temp help? The boat is outside covered with a tarp. On a 30 deg day and portable heater i can get the temp around 50 deg or so.

At 50 deg I would think it is better to lay as much as possible. At that temp you run the risk of the reaction being too slow and taking forever to kick. I would buy a small amount of fast hardener and try an experiment. Get your work area as warm as possible. And try a layup to see what happens. You may find that you need to supplement some heat to get it going. Different brands have different characteristics. Make sure you follow instructions or contact the manufacturer if you need to.
 

Bondo

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

My goal is to lay as much glass as possible to avoid as much sanding in between as possible.

Ayuh,... As soon as it starts to Kick off, start your next layer... No problem...
 

lime4x4

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

So get my fiberglass in place. Coat with resin. When it gets really tacky add another layer of glass then resin and so on and so on?
 

lime4x4

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Alos i will either be using west system or marine epoxy with fast cure hardner. Both don't kick off till the temp is above 45 deg. My idea is to do it around 50 or so deg so that i'd have more time to work with spreading the resin out. I have ALOT of fiberglass to lay
 

drewpster

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

The trick is to get everything ready before you start the job. Pre-cut all your pieces and have them on hand. Get all your materials laid out so you have easy working access to them.
If you are working with large sheets it is best to have a helper. Pre-coat the surface to be glassed using a cheap paint roller. I use the four inch rollers for stringers, the 9 inch for decks. Use a cheap chip brush to pre-coat corners and for dabbing out air pockets. When you pre-coat roll on enough resin so that the surface looks completely wet.
When working with smaller pieces it is best to wet out the cloth prior to placing it. (pre-coat a little less, but still do it) lay the wet cloth in place and roll over it with a dry paint roller or squeegee the excess resin out using a plastic spreader.
On larger pieces where wetting out the cloth prior to placment is not possible. (say larger than 3' x 3') Lay the cloth in dry on a heavier pre-coated surface. Then quickly wet the cloth in using a paint roller. It helps to really load the roller heavy here and work quickly. Keep rolling on wet resin until the cloth looks translucent.
At this point I cannot stress the value of a grooved roller enough! Use the longest grooved roller you can depending on the surface you are working with. (I have a 4"x 1" and a 6"x 1") If I had it to do over again, I would also get a smaller diameter grooved roller for the inside corners, 1" is a little large for that. Use the grooved roller (compression roller) to roll the cloth after it is wet to remove air bubbles and voids. You will have the most difficult time getting the voids out of corners. (inside and outside) IF you get bad bubbles at the corners it may necessary to use a lighter cloth in those areas and build them up with more layers.

get one of these!

DSC04737.jpg


In my experience it is much easier to tab in corners using fiberglass tapes rather than cutting all those strips out. If you have relatively low stringers it may be possible to wrap them from top to bottom. If you have larger, taller stringers it is easier to tab the lower corners, do the sides flat and cap the tops in alternating layers.

(tab, slab, cap- slab, tab. cap- slab, tab...and so on):D


my glassing tools
DSC04738.jpg
 

erikgreen

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

You can safely lay all of them at once if you can manage it.

Keep the fiberglass pieces no bigger than you can manage on your own. If you have any area where you must lay a piece of glass bigger than you can easily handle, get a helper or two for that piece.

As mentioned above, pre-cut everything to size first, and roll or fold it so it's ready to go.

At 50 degrees you'll need a fast kicking resin. Plus you may need heat lamps to ensure a complete cure.

Be aware that "fast" depends on the resin and chemistry. West systems seems to kick off and heat up very quickly, in less than 10 minutes. US Composites "fast" resin seems to take a half hour. Even in summer (90s F) I use the medium USC resin, it's plenty slow for me.

Unless you're laying up a piece of glass 5-6 inches or more thick, heat in the layup isn't a problem. You're going to have the opposite issue, trying to keep the resin warm. It'll flow slowly and you'll have problems wetting it out in those low temps. I'd keep it inside and warm until use, then only take as much as you need out, mix it inside, then bring it outside for use.

Really, I'd personally avoid trying to glass in less than 65-70 degree temps... too hard to get a good layup when it's that cold out.

Erik
 

lime4x4

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Well the boat is covered with a tarp. I'm currently looking into buying a 170,000 btu jet heater that runs off propane. I'm sure with that many btu's i can easily get the temp inside the boat atleast 60 deg.
 

Bondo

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

I'm currently looking into buying a 170,000 btu jet heater that runs off propane.

Ayuh,... Those struggle running off 20lb tanks,... Right conditions,+ the valves freeze, shuttin' off the gas...

Just saying, with 100lb.ers it a more comfortable, Reliable heat...
 

lime4x4

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Well the170,000 btu one is on craiglist the guy only wants 100 bucks for it. Lowes has the 78,000 btu for 99.99. I think 78,000 btu would work fine. I think i want to stay with propane cause i heard the kerosen ones can leave an oily coating on stuff
 

erikgreen

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Whether it's big enough is gonna depend on how cold it is and how much air gets under the tarp. Remember also that you need the boat itself to be that temp, not just the air you're working in.

In any reasonably cold temp you're going to have a very hard time getting the boat warm.

Is there any way you can get into a garage, just for the glassing, or can you get a prefab tent structure or an RV shelter with walls?

Really, I don't recommend you try this outside in the cold.

Erik
 

lime4x4

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Okay i have the boat wrapped in a tarp. I got a 55,000 propane jet heater. If i place the heater in the engine bay i can bring the boat fiberglass up to 55 deg and the air temp around 65.If i install the engine bay deck lids that area gets around 85 deg. How long should i leave the heater running once i'm done glassing for the day?
 

jonesg

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

You'll probably suffocate running an internal combustion heater.
Halogens are safer.
I find its quite comfortable under a tarp if the sun is on it.

When laying long runs of cloth I just fold it up, brush the resin on the wood, then place the cloth and unfold it as I go along. Then come back with a fresh resin batch and a big brush.
I work with poly resin which typically goes off before you can barely get it out of the mixin pot.
 

lime4x4

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

well it's around 30 deg here. I don't run the heater with the deck lids closed when i'm working on the boat. There is plenty of fresh air being drawn into the boat. My thought was to get glassed what i have to. Then when i'm done install the engine covers to build up some more heat. Then come back later to shut it off.
 

micks110

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Hey 4X4 good luck tomorrow with your setup. I just saw your thread and you are close to me- I'm in Northampton. They are calling for 4-8 tomorrow. I have my unisulated garage to work in but I have a hard time getting the temp up too with the wether we've been having lately. I'm not quite as far as you yet but I'm getting there. Good Luck
Mick
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=365820
 

lime4x4

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Small world?? I don't have a problem working in these temps. Just hard to do glass work. I have about 60 hours in gutting my boat. So now i'm ready for the rebuilding process.I'm hoping to get the transom installed this weekend. Sometimes i think it would've been easy if we had a smaller boat.
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Hello 4x4..

Most important is your first lam..You should put down 1.5 oz mat + at least 2 layers of biax ( 1708 ) on your first run. mat being your bond material. ( dont expect .5 or .75 oz mat backed 1708 to be your initial bond )

You Need your substrate to be up to temp.. or it will out cool your air temp cure .. as stated in this thread. Heat lamp untill your surface is in proper temp range. underneath and inside.

Yes .. ALL your glass schedule should be precut..

TIP ! tape all your edges and even a cross tape on you larger pieces of 1708 with masking tape !! .. or you Will find that the glass will distort when handled ( big friggen mess ) .. yess keep a sharp pair of scissors handy :)

Wet out on some masking paper and transport "mat" side up to your location.. remove paper.. put 2-3 layers of glass..and roll out.

After your "resin" goes through the heat stage and tacks up..then you can layup more glass ( after about 5-6 layers of 1708) . if you use epoxy you MUST prep all shiny surfaces b4 you layup again.

So basically if your schedule is lets say 8 layers of 1708 .. and you think you can get on 5 on one shot.. stick with 4 on your first run.. reprep and put your final 4 layers on the second ( with a first run of 1.5 oz mat ) IMO.


Keep your First bond layers CLEAN.. after that its build up..

YD.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

Off topic (hijack :eek:) Hi Yacht Dr. :) It's great to see you back. I imagine you had a busy season. Bob
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: epoxy and heat and glass thickness?

AYE.. I did Bob..

about time for some time off.. but had to pop in :)

YD.
 
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