E10 Survey.-

[Sea Rider]

That's an alum pump body, right ? If so, should run carb dry after use, much better while flushing, just disconnect OB fuel connector and let die. Much better for alum parts and diaphragm to be free of E fuels while OB sits unused. If going for E15 fuels, engine brands will simply wash their hands regarding warranties as only max 10% E content is permited.

Happy Boating

 

[bruceb58]

That's an alum pump body, right ? If so, should run carb dry after use,

That's a very bad idea if its a 2 stroke.

 

[Sea Rider]

That's a very bad idea if its a 2 stroke.

OP has not specified it's a 2 or 4 stroke OB. It it were a 2 strokes, is there a proven bad issue about runniung carb dry after use specially if you go boating on very few occasions throughout the year ? If so, would love to hear about that.

Happy Boating

 

[bruceb58]

It it were a 2 strokes, is there a proven bad issue about runniung carb dry after use specially if you go boating on very few occasions throughout the year ? If so, would love to hear about that.

If it's a 2 stroke, you are running it lean and without proper lubrication

If you are using your boat weekly, I wouldn't run it dry. If you are only using it once a month, I might but I would stop the engine before it did it completely died.

 

[HT32BSX115]

I have a 4HP Tohatsu. Never had a problem. In fact it loves E10....gobbles it up!

I have a 2004 Tohatsu 9.8 4-stroke. Bought it new for my Zodiac Zoom.

All I have EVER used is E-10. I run it dry every time I put it away. Last time it sat for 2 years before I ran it again (a couple of weeks ago)

2 or 3 squeezes on the bulb, pull the choke, 2 pulls on the rope, starts right up!!

It's done this for the 12 odd years I have owned it. Everything I have runs on E-10. I don't use STABIL or other secret snake oil in the fuel either.

I just run them dry if I am going to store them. My Briggs and Stratton 5500w Generator has a 5 gallon tank. with a fuel shut off. I ALWAYS close the valve and let it die from fuel starvation when I shut it down. I have done this since I bought it new (20 years ago) All it has ever gotten is E-10. It also doesn't get Super Secret Owl-Snot, Sea-Foam, or other money wasting snake oil. I just put fresh gasoline in it when I need to use it.

My boat fuel tank is ran down to 1/4 tank or less and stored. Or I remove the back seat, remove the gage sender and siphon ALL the gas (and any debris or water that might be in there) OUT! (btw, I've never siphoned any water out the tank)

The next year, I just fill it up and go boating. It gets the cheapest ARCO E-10 I can find.

Over to you Bruce!!



ymmv......



Cheers,


Rick

Oh, Yes, In general terms, It is a very bad idea to fuel starve a 2-stroke because you also oil starve it (unless it's oil injected) but you can "FOG" with any fogging spray-type oil while you're "starving" it!

Or, you can just drain the carburetor bowl but that can be a lot of trouble......

 

[Sea Rider]

It's unavoidable for posters going off topic, yep, we're talking about pre mixed OB's, with those not an issue running them dry. Let's throw more fuel into the E fire chat. This is from experience and proven documentation, it's not 5 o'clock tea time theoretical forum chat. Are 2 of the mentioned Tohatsu issues that will happen yes or yes while running E fuels under "constant use" throughout the year.

Fuel Cap : E has eaten the internal valve thread in a very short time use, now can pull, push air vent screw with fingers, forget all about unscrewing it open or screwing it for closing. Discoloring is significant.



Don't plan buying a new fuel cap every time new cap will develop this issue, just insert on top air screw a hose of same diam cut to same height size. Seals well. Have 3 tanks with same screwed condition. I'm all laughs at this point.

Fuel Filter : Same deterioration issue, lower filter threads swells inside upper fuel cap threads, makes removal a PITA, filters used with non E8 fuels can be unscrewed with mouth if wanting to. Pic 1 filter with 330 worked hours, second pic, filter with same worked hours. Huge visual discoloration comparing both.



When filter is already highly screwed up, that's non removable by any means, the only way of cleaning it is removing both fuel hoses and flushing it backwards through the exit fuel pipe to eliminate any impurities trapped by the internal mesh filter. Works fantastic well.

Happy Boating

 

[bruceb58]

The filter in my 2006 Mercury outboard looks like brand new with E10. Looks very similar to that type.

My suggestion....stop using Tohatsu. It's not an E10 issue but a motor brand issue.

And yes, running an engine dry with premix is an issue.

When filter is already highly screwed up, that's non removable by any means, the only way of cleaning it is removing both fuel hoses and flushing it backwards through the exit fuel pipe to eliminate any impurities trapped by the internal mesh filter. Works fantastic well.

You should be replacing the filter and not doing this.

I have a question, if you can get E0 fuel, and in your head you think you are having all these issues, why are you even using E8?

 

[HT32BSX115]

When filter is already highly screwed up, that's non removable by any means, the only way of cleaning it is removing both fuel hoses and flushing it backwards through the exit fuel pipe to eliminate any impurities trapped by the internal mesh filter. Works fantastic well.

Happy Boating

Time to replace the entire filter mount with RACOR or equivalent. Backflushing through ANY fuel system is asking for severe problems!

I have the Mercruiser standard issue filter mount on my 7.4L Bravo engine. It's got a Baldwin spin-on filter on it. It's never been run on anything BUT regular "pump" E10 that I obtained at regular gas stations on the way to the lake etc.....

Baldwin BF-791

I usually change it every 1 or 2 years.....

 

[pvanv]

The filter in my 2006 Mercury outboard looks like brand new with E10. Looks very similar to that type.

My suggestion....stop using Tohatsu. It's not an E10 issue but a motor brand issue.

And yes, running an engine dry with premix is an issue.

You should be replacing the filter and not doing this.

I have a question, if you can get E0 fuel, and in your head you think you are having all these issues, why are you even using E8?

Your Merc is made by Tohatsu. It is not a brand issue.
No, running out a premix 2-stroke is not an issue. Anyone who told you that is mistaken (or worse).
Where Luis is located, the only option is E8.

 

[pvanv]

There have been studies that show that is BS. I have been using E10 my boat's entire life. When I took off the top of the carb to look at the float chamber....zero corrosion.

Last weeekned, I replaced the fuel pump and filter in my Lexus GS300 with 190K miles. I looked in the bottom of the tank expecting something in there. Not one bit of corrosion or anything for that matter. If E10 is really that corrosive, I would be seeing something! It was brand new looking!

As far as the 4x cost, not sure where you got that number. They say the energy equivalent cost of Ethanol to gasoline is around $3.80/gallon

Your car is a sealed, EFI system. Not even apples to tangerines. It is the water, attracted by the alcohol, that causes the corrosion, in a vented system.

 

[Sea Rider]

Both poster flew over the tress, was talking about internal fuel filters, the ones located before the fuel pump as posted pics. Paul and many others are right about running carb dry if using premix, been doing it for the last 4.5K metered worked hours on all my OB's. Will have 0 stuck float valve and 2 stroke oil varnish issues inside carb...

Nope non E fuel available down here all are now E 90-95-97-98 gasohols. Somebody is doing good bussiness...

Happy Boating

 

[bruceb58]

Your Merc is made by Tohatsu. It is not a brand issue.

My Merc powerhead is made by Yamaha. Tohatsu has nothing to do with Mercury except for a very few smaller engines years ago.

 

[bruceb58]

Your car is a sealed, EFI system. Not even apples to tangerines. It is the water, attracted by the alcohol, that causes the corrosion, in a vented system.

Hey...you are the the one that said E10 corrodes metal!

The amount of water that gets into the vented fuel tank of a boat is negligible.There is way more chance of water entering the fuel storage at a station than there is in a boat tank.

I noticed you didn't respond to the 4x the cost issue you claimed or the fact that my carb on my marine engine had zero corrosion in it.

 

[bruceb58]

Both poster flew over the tress, was talking about internal fuel filters, the ones located before the fuel pump as posted pics.

I was talking the exact same thing. I have a filter before the fuel pump on my Mercury that unscrews and has a small replaceable element inside. I run E10 and it looks brand new.

 

[82rude]

Couch,beer,opcorn:

 

[bruceb58]

Couch,beer,opcorn:

I was thinking the same thing with the e85 thread. And you were the guy that started the E85 thread! LOL

 

[pvanv]

My Merc powerhead is made by Yamaha. Tohatsu has nothing to do with Mercury except for a very few smaller engines years ago.

Incorrect. Tohatsu always made all Nissans. They make all Mercury motors 30 hp and below, and the also make all Evinrude motors 20 hp and below. That is well known... by those in the know. If you are talking about a larger merc, that could be a yamaha power head.

 

[pvanv]

Hey...you are the the one that said E10 corrodes metal!

The amount of water that gets into the vented fuel tank of a boat is negligible.There is way more chance of water entering the fuel storage at a station than there is in a boat tank.

I noticed you didn't respond to the 4x the cost issue you claimed or the fact that my carb on my marine engine had zero corrosion in it.

The issue is not discrete water, but dissolved water. Only after about 1% water will it phase separate. Duh.
When you remove the government subsidies from ethanol production, it costs about $10 a gallon. Go and buy a gallon of stove alcohol (denatured ethanol) for a reference.

 

[km1125]

Ethanol is definitely corrosive to metal. Ask any of the major petroleum pipeline companies. They will NOT run it through their pipelines because of corrosion concerns. Ethanol has an oxygen atom in every molecule, which gas does not. This is precisely the reason it is used and required in urban areas - because of this "oxygenation". Compounded with that, as pvanv noted, is the inclusion of water, which includes yet another oxygen atom per molecule. This will rust steel and corrode aluminum. You can formulate steel and aluminum to make it LESS susceptible, but not eliminate the issue. On the Nissan fuel pump housing I posted earlier, I had already cleaned off the corrosion on the nipples (you can see the scratches that I caused). Rubber and plastic parts have been reformulated several times over the years to help avoid issues, so if you're running a newer engine you are much less likely to have a problem with those parts. If you haven't had any ethanol-related issues then count yourself lucky.

 

[Sea Rider]

Yam used to provide Yam powerheads for some portable OB's, if not mistaken up to 25 HP or tad larger. From 2000 has a close relationship with Tohatsu, have a partnership in the new Komegawe Tohatsu plant in Japan.

Going back to E fuels, personally have 0 issues finding water on tank, even a few drops, don't even use a fuel/water separator on my fuel line, nor inside carb corrosion due to running carb dry.

What you must not do is leaving an OB sitting vertical at a stand or on transom for very long extended time period, this example shows what can account for if doing so.



Yesterday had an interesting tech chat regarding running carbs dry on 2 strokes VRO/Autimixing OB's. The consensus was that it's not an issue doing so, when OB is being flushed and fuel hose is disconnected, carb's bowls are still full of fuel. As long the OB is running oil will be injected accordingly at a minimum rate say 100:1 or whatever, we're at idle right.

At idle OB needs minimum oil, if that's running lean, then it's so. Was designed to run so. Carbs and VRO/Automixing "system" whether electrical or mechanical works hand in hand together. If OB shuts off when carbs runs out of fuel "system" will stop working immediately.

We're importing modern Tohatsus OB's, and having issues with fuel pump diaphragm, and fuel filters. What I'm saying is that lasts much less, degrades faster than if using non E fuels as posted upper pics. Time will tell as have been in the transition between non E and E fuels..

Happy Boating