Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

RAPACHI

Cadet
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
12
I have a 84 Formula 17' w/ 3.8 V-6. My friend used the boat and drove with the tilt up and wore my ball gears to the point where it bangs in to gear. The balls on the drive are 50 to 60% gone. Here's my question, how hard are they to change? I have automotive back ground but no stern drives. And does anyone have a tear down of the drive.

Please help someone with a jerk friend who said it doesn't hurt to drive with the tilt up.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

A jerk for sure, Rapachi. My BG's are now 32 y/o, and maybe 5-10% worn so I've never had to change them. It would be best if you would get a manual. You should be able to change them after pulling the drive.
 

wire2

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,584
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

I've idled mine several times with the drive up ~10? to get to dock in shallow water and it doesn't do any harm. Driving under power definitely will.
Here's an eBay listing for a ball gear kit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2205...010QQitemZ200155256961QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
You should replace the seals (included) and you HAVE to replace the protective caps. (also included).

It's not difficult. You have to undo the shift wires in the shift convertor, undo the shift cable clip near the ball gear, pull the outdrive.
Then punch a hole in the ss cover to remove it, and remove nut with a 1-1/16 socket. Place a 2 or 3 jaw puller on the gear and remove it. Then replace the seals, one each way.
Bolt the new ones on with the new nut, put sealant on the opening edge and hammer the cover flat with a block of wood.
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

A good winter project. I did mine. Do a search here and you will find some info to help.
 

wire2

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,584
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

I should have added, drain the oil from mid and upper first.
 

RAPACHI

Cadet
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
12
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

Well I hope everything will last till winter (I'm in upstate NY). My friend calms that he tiltted it at idle. The way I look at it, there's what he's telling me and what really happen, I'm sure the truth maybe some where in there. or maybe not. This will be the LAST time I let him use the boat. He ruined it for himself. How many of you would lone your boat out? I think I am going to post a poll asking that..............

I will be buying a manual. I have allways had a saying "You have to be smarter than the thing you're working on" and "You can make anything fit with spit"

Thanks everyone, if anyone has anything to add PLEASE DO!!!!!!!!!!
 

whywhyzed

Banned
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
1,871
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

If the ball gears are worn on a 45 degree angle from running tilted. Do not use the boat.
Park it and Fix it.
What will happen if you keep running it: the 45 degree ball gear drive surfaces push the horizontal shaft of the upper unit back with great thrust, and drives the rear tapered roller bearing cup so hard into the upper case, that it will spin in it's bore and destroy the case.
There's a shop in Toronto that can fix the case, but not all are salvageable after this type of failure.
 

RAPACHI

Cadet
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
12
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

Okay I am starting think that I might have someone else fix it. Does ANYONE have a clue on time it would take to fix this or cost of labor?
 

wire2

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,584
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

Last time I did one, took me ~2? hours.
But I'm not a pro, shop could prob do it in less.
 

Manipulator

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
743
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

It is not too complicated to change these. You do however have to remove the out drive. First things first and the funest part of the project is removing the shift cable. You will need to release the tension off the shift cable at the shift box and remove the cable from the shift box. All you do is push the cable into the box and slide a cotter pin or small nail through the sleeve on the box to hold it, then remove the cover and undue the cables from the pulley and arm. Before you do this, take the batteries out of the boat. You ground out the cable its done! Getting it through the intermediate housing can be a nightmare. Spray some WD-40 around where it exits the intermediate housing. You will have to push and pull (after removing the little bolt and retainer) to get it to come out. Once that is removed, take the black bumpers off the upper and remove the trunnion/pivot bolts. There are 4 (2 each side), remove the trunnion caps first (one on each side with 4 small bolts holding them on each side). You will need a new seal kit here (about 3-4 bucks on internet). After that, the drive will slide right off the intermediate. Have a friend (the guy that screwed it up) you lift it out of the way. There are four small bolts that hold the bearing retainer on the intermediate behind the ball gear and four that hold the retainer on the upper unit behind the ball gear. Remove all bolts and pry the retainer off with screw driver. Careful not to trash the shim as you will be reusing it. The shaft will slide right out and its off to the work bench. Now remove the dome cap to get to the nut holding the ball gear to the shaft. Drill a small hole in the center and pry it out. Don't be surprised if you see that the nut and shaft are good and rusted. Use penetrating oil and let it soak. You will more than likely need an impact wrench to knock it loose. I broke 2 vices and had to put a 3 ft pipe on a breaker bar to get this loose. My impact wrench didn't put a dent in it. I also had to heat the hell out of it. A propane torch will work and they sell them at any local hardware store. Since you're going to all the trouble I would put new seals in. The ball gear kits come with them but will not have the far inner intermediate seals. They may be fine but mine weren't and gear lube was getting into my bilge, you will have to buy these separate if you choose to replace them. I paid $12 each for them at a local marina. There are two and they go in back to back. You can get the old seals out with a screwdriver but I used a cheapo bearing puller from Harbor Freight. All seals go in back to back and you want to put a sealer around the outside case before you pound them in. Coat them nicely with OMC triple guard grease (the rubber in the center). Also, use some on the o-rings too on the bearing retainers so they slide right in. The kit will come with new caps for the ball gear nut; you want to put plenty of silicone here (fill the cavity) to keep water out. Also, you want to use red loc-tite on the ball gear threads and ball gear spines. Reverse the process to reassemble. Labor for the general at home mechanic is all day and probably at least a 12 pack of brew.

Since you will have the drive off, now is a good time to put in a new impeller. Its not too difficult. Get this done and I will tell how to do the impeller and go into detail on putting the shift cables back into the box. You want to use some sealer on the shift cable where it enters the intermediate. This all sounds like a lot of work, I was very leery about doing all of this. Really, it was not that hard. I would suggest getting a manual too. Listen, I'm no mechanic, I'm a chiropractor and if I can do this, you can too.
 

tie_one_on

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
276
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

I remember reading something once "never lend your boat or wife to a friend, they'll both come back f**ked."
 

wire2

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,584
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

....short... the cable it's done! Getting it through the intermediate housing can be a nightmare. Spray some WD-40 around where it exits the intermediate housing. You will have to push and pull (after removing the little bolt and retainer) to get it to come out.

If you wipe a bit of grease on the cable INSIDE the boat first, it slips right out effortlessly. Or back in as well.

A scratch awl and hammer will get a hole in the cover faster than a drill. It's discarded anyways.

If the nut is hard to remove, drill a 1/8 hole in the nut on 2 opposite sides, just outboard of the threads. Then tap with a punch, the nut will fall off in 2 pieces. There's new ones in a kit.

I suggest silicone grease on the cable where it enters the mid drive. It will seal 100% with the ss clip in place. Using sealer there will make it very difficult to remove next time.

Been there, done that.
 

BAYLINER185

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
474
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

I remember reading something once "never lend your boat or wife to a friend"
---------------------------------------QUOTE---------------------------

So true about the wife thing.....LOL.......Im divorced now ................ and thats why I have a NEW BAYLIENR! :)



I WOULD NEVER NEVER NEVER let ANY of my friends use, borrow, lown or any other term that means use my boat alone! I dont like to let any one other then myself drive it. Its too expensive to just hand the keys over and say give her hell!

Unless she is SMOKING hot and interested in learning how to operate it correctly and dating me :) that may be a differnt story ( only the driving part ). But even then SHE wont Ever be allowed to take the boat out her self.


EDIT:
Time to clean up your language and content Bayliner185.
This is a family site.
Don S
 
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RAPACHI

Cadet
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
12
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

Manipulator Thanks for the detailed run down of how to fix this. Not saying that nobody else helped, so here's a blanket thank you, THANK YOU.......


Just an update: My friend is back in good with me. He is paying for the parts $250 w/seals and overnight shipping and I am doing the labor. He asked if he could use the boat after it is fixed. I had to think long and hard about it and I ended up saying yes with a big BUT, That you are not to listen to others after I tell you what I want and if in doubt CALL ME and ask, that way if I say okay than you are covered. I reminded him of an old saying "CYA". "Cover your #$$" He said that he'll never do anything without asking me, we will see.............

So I guess I would have to change my answer in the poll I started. Yes to him and nobody else...............
 

Dakota47

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
722
Re: Dumb friend bad ball gears OMC

Wow , can i borrow it too??
 
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