dual battery charging

jlscjs

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Dec 15, 2015
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I want to be able to charge my starting battery and my trolling battery at the same time. What would I need to accomplish this? I've heard of tying the 2 batteries together but isn't then making a 24 volt charge going into the items I have attached.Thanks
 

alldodge

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This can be done using a battery switch or Automatic Charge Relay (ACR)

Only way to get 24V is to connect the bats in parallel, which should not happen. Bats connected pos to pos and neg to neg remains 12V

Suggest getting a Add-A-Battery kit which is an ACR setup. The one below is the 120 amp model with bat switch.

https://www.iboats.com/shop/add-a-ba...a-systems.html

edit should have said series
 
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Scott Danforth

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the ACR or if both batteries are identical, you can do a charging isolator. I recommend the ACR
 

bruceb58

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Are you talking about charging the two of them while running the engine or with a battery charger?
 

thumpar

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The ACR with do the job. My old boat had an isolator. They work good but they do have a small resistance to them so there is a little power loss. The ACR is kind of an update way to do it. At some point I want to install one on my current boat.
 

Maclin

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Charging them at the same time I would think you need a 2 Bank charger. I have been wrong before, but seems the best way to me.
 

bruceb58

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I want to be able to charge them both at the same time.

I will repeat my question....while the engine is running or while you have the boat stored?

If while the engine is running, an ACR is best. If while stored, a 2 bank charger is needed. You will likely need both methods.
 

dingbat

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While not ideal, I charged both batteries at once for years by connecting the charger on one battery and setting the battery switch to combine/both.
 

Baylinerchuck

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dingbat I thought the same thing. But then I started wondering in my setup with a group 24 starting and group 27 deep cycle if one battery would bleed the other down. Also was thinking if the batteries charge at different rates given size and cell density, does charging both together hurt one or the other? I don’t know the answers to this honestly. I think I’ll go with two chargers.
 

dlogvine

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Since the batteries are connected with parallel connection, I always thought that the alternator would charge them both if the switch setting is for both batteries or one at a time when the switch is set to one. And when I charge the batteries before going to the lake I put them both on separate chargers and switch to off position. Maybe not the most efficient solution but does not require any extra gadgets. As for one battery bleeding the other while the boat is running, if your alternator is working correctly it should feed both batteries and they will not bleed the charge. I would not connect them into serial connection, it can burn the whole electric system.
 

dingbat

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dingbat I thought the same thing. But then I started wondering in my setup with a group 24 starting and group 27 deep cycle if one battery would bleed the other down. Also was thinking if the batteries charge at different rates given size and cell density, does charging both together hurt one or the other? I don’t know the answers to this honestly. I think I’ll go with two chargers.
Your way over thinking this.....

When combined the two batteries become one large battery.

Yes, the batteries will discharge from one to the other until both batteries are the same voltage (equalize), but that’s it. If your charging, both charge at the same rate to the same level of charge

Think of it as two buckets of water connected by a pipe with a valve. One bucket has 5 gallons the other has 3 gallons. You open the valve (both), the water level drops in one bucket and rises in the other to make 4 gallons of water in each bucket.

Do you need 2 hoses to fill the buckets or do you connect the hose to the pipe and fill both at the same time?
 

sam am I

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When combined the two batteries become one large battery.

Yes, the batteries will discharge from one to the other until both batteries are the same voltage (equalize), but that’s it.

You're spot on right..........100% and because I can't sleep..............

This is the stop were I always will get off the bus...........Paralleling (combining, either automagically with a ACR/VSR or with the manual "Off, 1, Both, 2" batt switch) the needed kept in reserved "safe" start battery with a discharged'ish house battery isn't best practice.........Not in my boat anyway and typically, not in any industry were preserving reserved energy at specific potentials for power needs are required/desired to do optimal work.......

This "equalization" after combining/paralleling is effectively just discharging your topped off start batt into a depleted house batt., the net result is as you state, "one big battery" BUT, and as I agree, and as I also see it in the following example, instead of having your start batt *kept safely at or around a 13V potential along with having a discharged house batt at say 11V, I would definitely agree, after combining, we now have one big battery, with say 12V or less!

"12V or less" as the example goes, is of course dependent on how discharged the house batt was at the time of combining, the capacity of each individual battery and SOC on the start batt, obviously..........Plus several more variables would dictate an exact value, however.......

This net effect happens because the alternator (the third voltage source) at the time when the two batteries are combined, can't supply (current limited voltage source) enough current due to the fact the depleted battery/ies instantaneous(di/dt)/inrush current draw reaches up to several several hundreds of amps and can take a bit of time to normalize. The alternator's output now has a **voltage drop out/sag that is forced down to the combined battery voltage due to being max'd out (12V in our example case).

So now, the "one big battery" of 12V, in this example, now takes time (can be hours and dependent on the alternator output amp rating) for the one big battery to come back up to say 13.8V-14.2V.

In a nut shell?.......Given a house batt being discharged at some level, when paralleled with a fully charged start batt, the action of paralleling sucks both the alternator (current limited voltage source) and the start battery down to 12V until the alternator can recover given some time by charging now BOTH (twice the capacity due to being paralleled) batteries back up

Given this........

It is always best practice, to leave the charged battery charged and re-charge JUST the low battery by itself. And as such, I prefer an battery management system that prevent this "back charging" as its called......

A diode isolator that is voltage bias up using the alt's (mag or armature type) sense lines to make up for the diode drop (either silicon 0.5V or schottkey 0.2V) is easily done and works fine or use a smart switching battery "zero drop" management device (FET or Relay), those also work very well.

If you use a "Off, 1, Both, 2" batt switch and can remember well (I always forgot), switch over to house (2) when stopped, use what you went, then switch over to start (1) to start. Once started and the start batt is topped off (few minutes), manually switch back to house (2) and NOT combined. Let the house come up to roughly what the kept safe start battery is at (13V in our example), then you may if you want go to "both"


Of course, all this is just my opinion (and an industry accepted best practice approach) and has worked best for my needs and has worked quite well over the many years I've used this type/s of setup. Individual taste and preferences always apply here. And just like elbows and.......well, you know .:rolleyes:

*recalling starters require power to function as designed and because P=I*V, keeping the voltage "V" (13V) magnitude higher is important here at a given curret "I" (given due to the fixed R in the starter's winding's) for power "P" to remain high enough for the starter to spin up and do work at the required rates (Specifically Sim 1 verse Sim 2)

**this is why ACR/VSR's require hysteresis, it helps prevent self switching on and off oscillations at combine time due to this a rapid drop in voltage when paralleled, then due to it dropping to far, it un-combined, hence, it became an oscillator. At one point I recall; the older ACR's didn't have enough hysteresis and were known to oscillate quite a bit at combine time, they since had a rev or two and have up'd the original hysteresis thresholds even more due to this very prominent dropping out/ voltage sagging that occurs when a depleted battery is paralleled with the good battery.
 
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Baylinerchuck

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sam am I Really in depth reading there, but makes total sense. I’ll most likely need to read this a few times to to extract everything out of it. Thx for taking the time to post it.
 

H20Rat

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I will repeat my question....while the engine is running or while you have the boat stored?

If while the engine is running, an ACR is best. If while stored, a 2 bank charger is needed. You will likely need both methods.


When an ACR detects greater than x volts (usually 13.3 or so) on either side, it will open up and connect the batteries. A 2 bank charger wouldn't do anything unless the ACR is completely disconnected.

(I've been running a SmartIsolator voltage sensing relay combiner on my RV for years, if I am driving it closes and charges the house batteries off the alternator. If I'm dry camping with solar, the panels are directly connected to the house side, but once the voltage is high enough it will close the relay and charge the starting batt also.)
 

fishrdan

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Think of it as two buckets of water connected by a pipe with a valve. One bucket has 5 gallons the other has 3 gallons. You open the valve (both), the water level drops in one bucket and rises in the other to make 4 gallons of water in each bucket.

Do you need 2 hoses to fill the buckets or do you connect the hose to the pipe and fill both at the same time?

A better analogy would have a small hole in the second bucket, so it can only hold 3 gallons. Even if you quickly fill both buckets to 5 gallons, and they are plumbed together, they will eventually leak down to 3 gallons in each bucket.

Fill both buckets up and shut the valve, now you have 8 gallons of water, instead of 6.

I have parallel charged before and it works, but if I have a sketchy battery, I disconnect them after charging and run the batteries down independently. If both batteries are good, run them down in parallel as it will give you slightly more run time.
 
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bruceb58

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When an ACR detects greater than x volts (usually 13.3 or so) on either side, it will open up and connect the batteries. A 2 bank charger wouldn't do anything unless the ACR is completely disconnected.
On my pontoon boat, the ACR is only connected to the batteries when the switch is on, so yes, it is disconnected while charging.
 
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