Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

[maproy99]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I just added in some info when I got the editor to work I should have had in my first post.


Looks like I'm going with $30 rv electric brakes on the first axle.

 

[jeffnick]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

http://72land-n-sea.blogspot.com/2011/05/trailer-tires-brakes.html

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

This posting is going in different directions. Let's get back to the question at hand: Should he switch to electric disc type brakes on his boat trailer since he already has a brake controller in his truck.

I've made every mistake with trailers, including almost jackknifing (twice,) running with bent axles eating up the tires, running big travel trailer 400 miles w/o the electric brakes working. I also went into a ditch with a skidsteer loader on a trailer. The sight of a trailer swaying 45 degrees left and 45 degrees right is frightening.

On boats, I prefer run surge drum brakes to keep things simple. Surge brakes do not activate much unless they're really needed. I forget to unplug electric brakes prior to submerging the trailer in water--fresh or saltwater. But, all heavier tandem trailers must use brakes on all 4 wheels or they're not really safe.

Now, let's talk about trailer tires. Car tires don't cut it on any substantial trailer, as the sidewalls are just too light. If you're pulling more than a few miles to the lake, invest in a set of real E rated trailer tires. And, run them at the maximum inflation rating. 15" and 16" trailer tires are expensive, but they're cheap insurance. Last law of towing: Don't run any trailer tire if it's over 5 years old due to dry rot and ultraviolet light deteriorating the rubber. I don't cherish changing a trailer tire on an interstate highway in the middle of the night--done that.

I'm an RV'er, and this is a subject that is discussed almost daily in Recreational Vehicle/Camping trailer online forums. If you Google trailers, there's a lot of advice on the internet about trailers, brakes and tires.

 

[jacoboregon]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I had a 20' sea ray cuddy on tandem trailer with surge brakes. I switched them over to electric drums. I drive in a lot of mountains in the central/south Oregon coastal area and to Redding, Ca and back. The boat weighed about 4400 lbs (weighed) if I remember right. I liked them much better than the hydraulic. I was limited on funds and bought a cheaper set from the local steel supply shop.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

This posting is going in different directions. Let's get back to the question at hand: Should he switch to electric disc type brakes on his boat trailer since he already has a brake controller in his truck.

No such thing as electric disc brakes. Speaking of different directions, why are you bringing up tires?

 

[jeffnick]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

It's totally unnecessary to unplug electric brakes while submersing the trailer in fresh or saltwater.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I've never used electric brakes on a boat trailer so I can't comment on how well they hold up to being immersed in water. Surge drums are a simple system, but drum brakes have good and bad points. The good is that they are self-energizing, and have return springs which allows them to run cooler than discs especially in hilly terrain. Also they can be made free backing and do not need a back up solenoid which can be troublesome on trailers.
The bad points are that they are harder to service and the wheel cylinder is not water tight. So esp in salt water, you will get salt crystals in the cylinder that seize up the piston. What I did was coat the sides of that piston (metal one not the rubber one) with some synthetic marine grease and also pack the area under the dust boot with the same grease. Then use high temp RTV to seal the dust boot where it pops on the cylinder and where the push rod comes out of the boot. If you do that , it keeps the water out and the brakes will not seize up. The other thing I do, is put some OMC triple guard grease on all the pivot points and the threads of the adjuster. This keeps it all working well even in salt. If you want to switch to discs certainly you can but if you wanted electric control you have to go to elec/hyd brakes which are a lot more expensive and complex.
I am not sold completely on disc brakes on a surge system. They run hot in hilly regions because the surge coupler is always on and when you coast they do not release as fast as drum brakes do. Unless you get full stainless Kodiaks, the rotors rust like crazy. I have managed to get good life out of my surge drums by doing what I noted above.

 

[maproy99]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I said at the very beginning I had made my decision and didn't want this to turn into a debate about how one system is better then another. And it looks like it has.

 

[jacoboregon]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I said at the very beginning I had made my decision and didn't want this to turn into a debate about how one system is better then another. And it looks like it has.

So, a direct answer: The cheaper will work and they are, well, cheaper. The more expensive will last longer.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I said at the very beginning I had made my decision and didn't want this to turn into a debate about how one system is better then another. And it looks like it has.

How does anyone know what you said at the beginning? you completely changed it half way through the debate.

Instead of telling people what not to talk about why don't you tell us what, if any, questions you still have.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I said at the very beginning I had made my decision and didn't want this to turn into a debate about how one system is better then another. And it looks like it has.

The why did you post in the first place if you had already made your decision? What am I missing here?

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I ran up on a great website that addresses the specific needs of a boater: ChampionTrailers.com. They're a large trailer parts supplier in the New Orleans area. They sell trailer axle/parts kits for do it yourself trailer builders.

Champion basically says that surge brakes are preferred on boats, as electric brakes on a boat have too short a lifespan. Electric brakes are preferred on RV's and utility trailer applications.

They also say that a light load is best served by drum brakes. Disc Brakes are better on heavier loads. Champion also says brakes should be on all trailer axles--not on one axle of a tandem axle setup.

 

[maproy99]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

I ran up on a great website that addresses the specific needs of a boater: ChampionTrailers.com. They're a large trailer parts supplier in the New Orleans area. They sell trailer axle/parts kits for do it yourself trailer builders.

Champion basically says that surge brakes are preferred on boats, as electric brakes on a boat have too short a lifespan. Electric brakes are preferred on RV's and utility trailer applications.

They also say that a light load is best served by drum brakes. Disc Brakes are better on heavier loads. Champion also says brakes should be on all trailer axles--not on one axle of a tandem axle setup.

Spending a lot more time researching I'm going to end up going with electric brakes. Cheaper and easier to maintain and not really any shorter lifespan. Other trailer brakes get soaked just as much in a heavy storm as they would getting dunked and will dry out within minutes of use I was told by a local trailer parts place. I'm not going to go through the inconvenience of replacing an axle just to get brakes on the 2nd axle, I was told this my neighbor who is a car mechanic that brakes on just the first axle are sufficient and I would defiantly want brakes on the first axle for my load. Also part of why I switched is that I want to have MORE CONTROL of the brakes. Surge just does not allow that. I'll post in the spring in a new post how it tows.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

If your trailer has the 10" dia. rim with the fat pontoon tires, your limited to drums.
You also might have to change rims as not all of the 10" rims will clear drums.
Yours already has drums so your likely okay.
If you go with the cheap brakes, I would at least disassemble them and treat them to some anti-rust measures such as painting them really good with some good paint.
And unless you know what brand of axle you have, good luck with adding the drums and getting them to fit.
Especially if the axle is of 1964 vintage.
I can't imagine any 1964 boat trailer that would be in good enough condition to use on a regular basis.

 

[maproy99]

Re: Drum surge Brakes to electric brakes

If your trailer has the 10" dia. rim with the fat pontoon tires, your limited to drums.
You also might have to change rims as not all of the 10" rims will clear drums.
Yours already has drums so your likely okay.
If you go with the cheap brakes, I would at least disassemble them and treat them to some anti-rust measures such as painting them really good with some good paint.
And unless you know what brand of axle you have, good luck with adding the drums and getting them to fit.
Especially if the axle is of 1964 vintage.
I can't imagine any 1964 boat trailer that would be in good enough condition to use on a regular basis.

Yea, not too many 1964 trailers left, a lot less are boat trailers. This is one of the few ones left. Solid steel frame, so no worry of the inside rusting and the outside has been sandblasted once and repainted, although it needs it again soon. Everything looks good except the minor surface rust. This trailer has been garage stored 97% of it's life and never seen salt. I bet it'll last at least another 20 years. (The more it rusts the less weight I have to pull = I get better mileage LOL)