Do concrete barriers really work?

[bigbad4cyl]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

i remember some fire engines that ran into the barriors while speeding to a call impalling a big engine sending it flipping into oncoming traffic....................they need to spend the extra dough and use the soft barriors with the shock obsorber systems that are covered with recyled tires....those plastic jobies suck ,,,,i can throw them around when they arnt filled with water ......i do like the sound barrior walls though...

 

[achris]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

Originally posted by Nos4r2:<br /> Yep... but you're missing one vital point. In the long run it'd be a load cheaper to teach people not to hit the barriers in the 1st place...<br />Educating drivers as to the consequences of their actions (all of them-not just the ones that land them in a barrier) is IMO the cheapest lesson in the long run.

So it's ok to kill people before we have a chance to educate them. Oh, and one more thing. The people who run into them are doing it deliberately too. There will always be times when an accident can't be avoided. Hypothetical example: I have been living with these barriers which it is now well known have a high likelihood of killing someone who hits them. A small child runs out onto the road in front of me. I have 2 choices, one - hit and kill the child, two - swerve to the side, hitting the barrier and killing myself. THANKS AS-HOLE!!!!

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

You're right to a certain extent-but maybe I didn't explain properly.It wasn't meant as a personal dig at you either.<br />Governments will always argue about cost of this, that and the other-but in the long run road safety isn't so much about stopping people getting killed during an accident than educating drivers into not having the accident in the first place. The majority of drivers don't seem to understand that a vehicle is a lethal weapon as well as a convenient way of getting about.Sure, they pay lip service to it-but the deep down understanding of it generally isn't there.Teach them this and then maybe the budget will stretch to putting safer barriers in.<br />Can any of you honestly say that their government spends enough (or even ANY) money on driver education AFTER passing the driving test?<br />The majority of accidents are simply not accidents-they are the results of gross carelessness and lack of attention while on the road by at least one of those involved. Unfortunately (as in your post above) sometimes they can't be avoided and you're right-the roadside furniture should reflect this. But based on a $ value (which lets face it is all that governments think saving lives boils down to) driver education is the way to go.

 

[DJ]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

unloaded truck with fiberglass front end slams into concrete pile reinforced 2 foot thick cement wall that is partialy embedded in soil....concrete wall broke....truck made in 196?...

That truck was probably late eighties. It's a Ford LN. Class 7 (between 26 and 33,000 GVW).<br /><br />Doesn't matter. Class 6-8 trucks haven't changed much, in design, since the the late fifties. They are STILL two straight frame rails with a bumper directly bolted to them. The cab sits on top, with a fiberglass hood. The underpinnings are all the same. Eaton, Meritor (Rockwell), Cummins-Cat-Detroit power. That's it.<br /><br />The only things that have changed are engine/trans due to emission laws, but they're still in line six cylinder diesels with more automatics (trans) in the mix. <br /><br />Anything weighing over 10K pounds is going to cause serious damage to anything it hits. That's the laws of physics. Can't change that.<br /><br />SUV's aren't dangerous to the general motoring public. Heavy trucks are. IMHO, we need to make driving a truck a respected profession. Not unlike police officers-firefighters, etc. They are all grossly underpaid, yet they hold the wellbeing of the public in their hands. Our priorities are all backwards.<br /><br />With that said, we need trucks. That's what delivers all the stuff we want/need. If we can keep them "contained", that's a good thing.

 

[achris]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

Thanks NOR4R2,<br /><br />I'll get off the soapbox now. But yes, you're right about the level of driver education. Sounds like the same thing is happening over there as here.<br /><br />I am finding more and more that new drivers are taught to pass the driving test, not to drive. Also we are breeding a culture of 'speedo watchers', people are so concerned about getting a speeding ticket, breed by the new speed cameras and being booked for 1km/hr over the limit, that they watch their speedometer more than the road.<br /><br />Personally I'd like to see some, or all, of the following things implemented.<br /><br />1. New and seperate class (of license) for driving a large 4WD. These get a lot of bad press. Some of which I agree with, but most is borne out of jealousy (IMHO). A lot of people are just driving them around the city as status symbols and have no real need for them. The education needs to go with the license class.<br /><br />2. Proper driving schools. Not 'test passer' schools. This crap about defensive driving is just that, crap. I would like ALL drives to know how to handle a vehicle in an emergency. Not just how to stop quickly, but how to regain control of a sliding vehicle. I learnt to drive in offroad car rallies, the proper ones. That knowledge is still with me. <br /><br />3. Change what I call "end of bonnet" drivers. The ones who don't look beyond the end of their bonnet (hood for you States types ). This is a huge problem in Perth in particular and Australia in general. <br /><br />Anything you can add? And for the record, I agree with everything DJ says about heavy haulage too. <br /><br />Chris...............

 

[bigbad4cyl]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

Originally posted by DJ:<br />

unloaded truck with fiberglass front end slams into concrete pile reinforced 2 foot thick cement wall that is partialy embedded in soil....concrete wall broke....truck made in 196?...

That truck was probably late eighties. It's a Ford LN. Class 7 (between 26 and 33,000 GVW).<br /><br />Doesn't matter. Class 6-8 trucks haven't changed much, in design, since the the late fifties. They are STILL two straight frame rails with a bumper directly bolted to them. The cab sits on top, with a fiberglass hood. The underpinnings are all the same. Eaton, Meritor (Rockwell), Cummins-Cat-Detroit power. That's it.<br /><br />The only things that have changed are engine/trans due to emission laws, but they're still in line six cylinder diesels with more automatics (trans) in the mix. <br /><br />Anything weighing over 10K pounds is going to cause serious damage to anything it hits. That's the laws of physics. Can't change that.<br /><br />SUV's aren't dangerous to the general motoring public. Heavy trucks are. IMHO, we need to make driving a truck a respected profession. Not unlike police officers-firefighters, etc. They are all grossly underpaid, yet they hold the wellbeing of the public in their hands. Our priorities are all backwards.<br /><br />With that said, we need trucks. That's what delivers all the stuff we want/need. If we can keep them "contained", that's a good thing.

well i drive an end dump one thing for certain is it wasent loaded .....it was obviously a minimized test ,the weight pivoted to the fiberglass front fenders ,and for all we know it could have had an aluminum frame rather than a steel frame lots of those trucks had aluminum frames .....a true test would have been a fully loaded peterbuilt with a steel frame......i think someone had a video of hummers crashing through k rails and some reinforced suburbans crahing through some k rails to ,,,,,that test was plain wimpy...

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

Cheers Achris <br /><br />Loads I could add to that-it seems you've got the same problems over there as you said but the best way to show you some stuff is to send you to here :-<br /><br /> Http://www.safespeed.org.uk <br /><br />You'll find some pretty good discussions on the use of speed cameras and bad driving etc on there. It's a UK site obviously but the majority is relevant everywhere-specially the stuff about speedo watching and speed cameras being a hazard in themselves. Don't forget we drive on the left (for you guys in the USA!)I've got the same screen name on there too.<br /><br />I learned to drive in 4x4s and on mud tracks so the same applies I guess. I drive semi's for a living too and I agree with DJ wholeheartedly (but then I would really!)

 

[achris]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

NOS4R2,<br /><br />Excellent website and agrees with most of my thoughts, particularly the negative effect of speed cameras.<br /><br />BTW, what does your screenname mean? I can't for the life of me work it out....

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Do concrete barriers really work?

Lol-The screenname's just a techie version of Nosferatu.I've used it for years.<br /><br />The safespeed website owner is even getting media airtime over here now-though not enough IMO. Might be an idea for someone to set up the same kind of site in Oz if you're having the same problems-specially considering the British government has just proved itself wrong and admitted it by cancelling 500 new speed cameras after the latest accident statistics.