difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Ok, let's talk about that but let's first establish that we're talking about stock port timing and stock heads on a late model 115 that has the bubble back exhaust. And it's on a performance hull that will respond to increases in propeller rpm (more later).<br /><br />The stock steel reeds will start to flutter about 6300 or so. You may get to 6500 on a long run. It'll feel like you hit a wall. It just wont go any more. Install Boyesens and you'll gain some, to about 6600-6700. Then take out the exhaust stuffers and it'll go to about 6900. At that rpm it can't get enough air in to go any higher. It may make a real loud popping noise that makes you think it's about to fly apart.<br /><br />At that point you take the intake manifold and cut the center wall out so each cylinder can pull from both carb throats. Instant 7400. <br /><br />BTW -- we've stopped trusting the stock flywheel a long time ago. <br /><br />It's important to realize we have to have a hull that responds to prop rpm. Every motor has a hp & torque curve. At 7400 we passed the hp peak quite a ways back. If we used 115 as a baseline, at 7400 I'd be surprised if it would be much more than a true 75 hp. But the performance hull lifts and has very little drag. Basically you've convinced the prop that the boat weighs nothing because of the extreme low drag.<br /><br />As for how long you can do that, I don't know. We ran one like that for 2 years. We'd drag race it, drop the motor an inch or so, switch drivers and run circle races. Sold the boat but never hurt the motor. Between races we had the motor on a ski boat set up at 6500.<br /><br />Another obvious thing I forgot -- that wasn't with cast pistons.
 

Rudy Brown

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 3, 2005
Messages
289
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Thanks Dhadley. As always,its great to read your posts. I just a noob to boat/outboard maintenance and I've learned soooo much from this board. :D
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Rudy, lets get that 60* 150 going!
 

G DANE

Commander
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Nov 24, 2001
Messages
2,476
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Thanks, exactly what I wanted to know. Its a 1991 115 CF with 1991 heads. Compression is just around 130 in all 4. Stock Pistons, will they last ? Motor has never been apart. <br />But as my boat is a regular V without pad, I doubt I will never get that far. Hull has a slight hook build into the last 2 feet in front of transom. At which RPMs do the horsepower peak, an alternative would be to get my prop worked to get exactly there.
 

Gammabusa

Seaman
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
72
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Okey Dale,
me again, I guess I have to wait for next year with the 225 so until then
I am stuck with my 1980 140 cf with bubbleback, I have boyesen reeds installed, I have 1 3/8 carbs laying around and I have a seized 1979 115 laying i bits to take part from, I am thinking of the inntake mod you mention here: you take the intake manifold and cut the center wall out so each cylinder can pull from both carb throats and anything else you know to get it reeving.....

I have not removed the innserts in the exhaust and the inntake stuffers are in place to

I allso have a bobs nosecone with low water inntake, 14 alu, 19alu, 21alu, Raker 22 old, omc 23 performance aluprop, Raker 24 old and a Raker 24 not so old and not so wild......

Ronny
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Try it all first without the nosecone. That'll establish a baseline. If we can get the 22 Raker to work it ought to be a pretty good set up for a cf V4. The intake mod is well worth the effort.
 

Gammabusa

Seaman
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
72
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Thanks for reply, yes I have one lower with nosecone and one stock.

How much to I cut out of the innlet manifoild? I see there ara som small holes between the two inntake ports....

I guess the first thing todo is modifying this to make the engine ready before I test anything further.

Ronnnnnnnnn
 

iwombat

Captain
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Messages
3,767
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Gamma, i've been interested in doing this mod myself. Any chance you can take some pictures of your work along the way?
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

The first thing you need to get is some old style carb gaskets. OMC #315052, Aqua Power #959. The newer style carb gasket, OMC #327707 / Aqua Power #758, will not work once the manifold is cut.

Basically this is what you'll need to do --
 

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72SideWinderSS

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
268
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

I think what Gamma is asking is "How deep do you make the cut ?".

I took mine down a half an inch and what an improvement.

OBTW if you guy's are looking to turn more than 6300 RPM You really need to find a Hi Pro Flywheel
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

We're just starting at the begining. If you can't find those gaskets we have to go a little different direction. As for depth, we go no deeper than to leave the center 1/4" thick.
 

Gammabusa

Seaman
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
72
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

First, thanks for all replys!!!!


Iwombat, I will try to get pictures along the way.


Dale, I guess that gasket is impossible to get over here but It looks like cutting the other gasket to match should be possible, ore are the material to weak so that it will be sucked in? I allso could make that gasket in some gasket material?


Sidewinder, I am running 6500 now and looking for more so what happens when flywheel give up? do I get it in my head???huh....


Her is an earlier post about my boat

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1349353#post1349353
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Yes, you can use gasket material, no problem. The reason we use that gasket will become apparent when you look at the back of the carbs. The carbs will have a space between the existing venturis that goes out the top of the carb body. The hole on the gasket side looks kinda like an old milk bottle. Once we open up the manifold that will leak air into the system.

The older gasket has enough material to seal the manifold, newer gaskets have less material. You'll see when you pull your carbs off. making a gasket isn't a big deal at all.

As for the hole, we'll need to fill it with resin or epoxy. I usually put a piece of tape across the gasket side and fill it in from the top. The gasket side needs to be fairly straight and smooth so it'll seal. Tends to be a small area, depends on how you cut the bridge in the manifold.
 

Gammabusa

Seaman
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
72
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Okey, I guess it is this little "dip" with the arrow here you mean needs to get filled.....? That will be done to night I guess.

This is one 90 hp vs one big 140 hp 1 3/8 carbs and if you look closely you see big difference in size.
 

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Gammabusa

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Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Is it to cut around here?? do I make it round or square, what about the two small holes that goes throug innto the reedvalve area??
 

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Dhadley

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16,978
Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Exactly. Fill in that open area on the carbs. And yes, cut out that area you have circled. I use the channel as the guide on the one end and just match it on the other.

Experiment with different size carbs. Don't get hung up on venturi size. Remember, you have to double everything. Even if you had 2 1" carbs from a V6, now each cylinder can pull from 2". Smaller throat carbs accelerate better, larger ones have more potiental top rpm. With a plenum manifold you virtually double the incoming fuel.
 

Gammabusa

Seaman
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
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Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Okey, you say leave the center 1/4" thick, it is about 1 1/2" down to where the reedblocks attach so that means I just cut big time down, over 1" and thats no problem.

I will try these biggest carbs first since the other is on the boat and it is in the sea, plan is make all parts ready then shift them over and see what happens.

Do I need to rejet?

Do I need other ignition timing? I dont remember what it is set to now but it is as the manual says.

With a not so good omc 19 alu prop the boat is going 50mph/6300 rpm, if i trim a tad more it stays at 6500rpm but it is only slipping, no more speed.

Of corse it goes better with the Raker 22/24 but it gets to wild to drive on a daily basis so I use this 19" to test engine so will we se what happens and if I gain anything with this mod

Im off for work a week or two so if no posting from me it is cause I am away from internet connection.....

Thanks again...!!!!!
 
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Gammabusa

Seaman
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Apr 16, 2005
Messages
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Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Filled holes in carbs
 

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Gammabusa

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Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Soon out testing.....
 

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Dhadley

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Feb 4, 2001
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Re: difference in 115 and 140 crossflow

Looks good! I've always left the jetting alone to start testing, don't think I ever changed it much - if at all - anyway. The timing will stay the same for now, 28*. I think you'll really like it.
 
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