Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

jimmmy

Seaman
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
51
I've posted a couple of messages before...but am now desperate!<br /><br />Bought an 89 Oliver 1650 with 3.0 L 130HP Merc 6 weeks ago! When purchased, former owner had just had carb rebuilt. Could not get RPMs above 2600 and owner indicated he was running the wrong prop (a 4 blade 23 pitch when it should be a 3 blade 19 pitch). Bought the boat anyhow (1st mistake). Put proper prop on - no change. Drained out last years gas and replaced - no change. Changed plugs - no change (they carbonned up after 10 minutes). Took boat to local mechanic (2nd mistake). He said carb improperly rebuilt and was flooding. He re-rebuilt and installed exhaust flapper valve which was missing. After 4 weeks he said he didn't know what was wrong (he said he checked compression twice and OK). Took the boat from him. It ran smooth but only 2600RPM and wouldn't plane with 4 adults. Took to another boat mechanic in town. They did compression test and discovered blown head gasket. Head was warped so it was machined and put back together. Ah... we are finally getting the problem resolved? Wrong! The boat still has the same problem. Revs to 4600 in neutral but under load 2600 only. HELP PLEASE!!!
 

akriverrat

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
588
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

do you know where the old flapper is? stuck down the exhaust pipe maybe?
 

jimmmy

Seaman
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
51
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Nope. Mechanic check this out. The flapper valve, just wasn't anywhere to be found. Could it be a coil problem?? This really has everyone stumped. Six weeks and noboby can fix it! :confused:
 

jeremyp111

Seaman
Joined
May 31, 2003
Messages
51
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

First of all, it would be helpful to know what HAS been checked so far. You've done the right thing by having a compression check done, but here are a few other things to check.<br /><br />Cap, rotor, wires, points and condensor, timing - base and advance, fuel filter, fuel pressure.<br /><br />Report back.<br /><br />JP
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

This may be a dumb question, but did you check to see that the throttle cable is adjusted properly?
 

jimmmy

Seaman
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
51
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Just received more info from former owner. Motor ran great until he backed into a submerged log and "spun" the prop. He said the prop ended up at the bottom of the lake. He had it towed to the marina (The same one that has my boat now by coincidence)where they installed a spare 4 blade prop that came with the boat. Since that time the speed and RPM's have been down and he believed it was due to the wrong prop. What lower drive unit damage might he have done that is causing this problem?? Any takers?? The timing has been checked. The carb has been checked. The coil has been checked. It doesn't appear to be a fuel or ignition problem.
 

boaterntexas

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
254
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Same motor except 1990 model boat.. My question, would be where is the old exhuast flapper, if some one removed it, why? If it was removed for some time you might had ingested water at one point in time. was the guy you bought the boat from the original owner? And I have never heard of a prop that wsa spun just falling off the boat, doesn't sound likely he would had have been going extemly fast in reverse to cuase that kind of damage, don't really think that would be a the cause, maybe running a 23 pitch 4 blade prop could hurt.. what size boat is it?
 

jimmmy

Seaman
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
51
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Could a reversing prop impact cause the motor and lower unit to get out of alignment? Could this result in binding in the lower unit and cause the reduced RPM under load? There doesn't appear to be excessive vibration or noise. Runs smooth up to 2600RPM just won't go anymore! HELP! ANYONE!
 

magster65

Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Messages
2,573
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

My thoughts;<br />- exhaust blockage?<br />- ignition not advancing?<br />- carb. (stuck power valve, blocked high speed jet or too low of float level would do this.)?<br />Good luck
 

jimmmy

Seaman
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
51
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Mechanic #2 indicates he has ruled out everything except - (a) an exhaust blockage or (b) internal engine damage.<br /><br />(a)Mechanic #1 had indicated an exhaust blockage. He said when he pulled the rubber cover off of the exhaust flapper it was missing. He said when he poured water down the exhaust it was slow to go away. He said he would have to pull the engine to get at the exhaust which I told him to do. After hounding him (he had the boat for 4 weeks! :eek: )he replaced the flapper valve, said there was no blockage but I don't know if he pulled the engine or not!! I didn't trust him!<br /><br />(b) If there was internal engine damage (maybe sucked in water thru exhaust with flapper missing), would it still run so smooth up to 2600 RPM??<br /><br />Any help would be appreciated. I have OKed another look at the exhaust as it's the lesser of 2 evils right now.
 

crazy charlie

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
5,447
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Any chance that there was outdrive damage and the incorrect outdrive was reinstalled on the boat?????????? Charlie
 

chris in va

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
410
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Just wondering something. I rented an 18' Sea Ray with the 3.0, and with 5 people aboard it wouldn't get on plane without at least 2 people in the bow. Are you sure the tach is indicating properly?<br /><br />I really do think it's a carb problem with those fouled plugs and all...
 

Northern Eclipse

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
665
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Jimmy I doubt there is exhaust blockage because if exhaust was blocked that motor would not idle for to long ..it should stall out, I suggest you go over the work already done,before deeming a new problem. This is what I would look at first 1) Does the Carb have a internal/or external vaccuum leak best way to check is put your hand over the top of the carb with motor at normal temperature and choke is of..motor should stall..if not possible throttle plate shaft leaking or base gasket leaking. 2) Are all the valves adjusted correctly after head gasket removal may need to do compression/leak down to determine this. 3) Check distributor shaft for any play..to do this pull cap and rotor and wiggle the shaft if it moves then it is worn and will cause timing to jump around...IF the intake/exhaust manifold was removed was it re installed with a new gasket is it leaking to check this spray a little WD-40 between the head and intake manifold if motor changes its running attitude then its leaking. In the past I have been able to solve many a problem just by going over what has been already done, I sure hope you can solve your issues I know how feels to be without your boat for 4 weeks spend money and still have original problem, what I described above are all the faults I have found after just having those things fixed.
 

Capt Ken

Commander
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Messages
2,269
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Easiest way to tell if you have an exhaust blockage which may be the cause in this case, is while running the boat under load, remove the spark arrester and when it reaches the 2600 and you throttle past that position, you will have a mist blowing back thru the carb.
 

jimmmy

Seaman
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
51
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Oh Oh! No exhaust restriction. Where do I go from here?
 

The Marine Doctor

Commander
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
2,177
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

D/C the shift interrupter switch and give it a try. Maybe its knocking out a cyl off idle.<br /><br />TMD
 

jimmmy

Seaman
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
51
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Mechanic # 2 has ruled out everything else now!! He suspects internal engine damage....maybe water got sucked in through exhaust when flapper was missing??? I still find it hard to believe that it would idle smooth and perform well up to 2600RPM if there was a major engine problem. Don't know waht my next step is? :confused:
 

boaterntexas

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
254
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

What is the reading on your spedo at 2600 rpm?<br /><br /> You said mech @ said he poored water down the exhuats and it was slow to come out, did he get this problem fixed.. what was it?
 

VMAX

Seaman
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
61
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

Be careful of "mystery internal engine damage"<br />Your engine is basically a pump. Mechanically,<br />if it has good compression readings, you can probably look somewhere else for the problem.<br />All internal combustion gas engines require 3 things to run, fuel, ignition and compression.<br />rule out compression first. Blocked ehaust is probably not a factor either, since you say that the engine will reach 4500 in neutral. Make sure that you can run it for more than a second or two at this rpm. if the exhaust is restricted, the rpm's will slowly fall off, and the aforementioned spitting back through the carburetor will occur.<br />Cam timing is not an issue with these motors, unless the cam was improperly installed,<br />since it is gear-driven and teeth would have to shear off the cam gear to affect timing. This results in a no-start, because the cam stops turning.<br /><br />I would suspect one of three things:<br /><br />1) Weak ignition, or improper timed ignition. To test timing, simply use a timing light.<br />To test spark intensity, Take an extra spark plug and open the gap up to a 1/4" gap, or better yet, remove the ground electrode so that the spark has to jump from the center electrode to the shell.<br />pull any one plug wire off and attach it to this spark test plug. lay the plug on the engine block, or better yet, ground it with a jumper wire, and start the engine. (it will miss on one cylinder of course, but will cause no harm).<br />You should see ( and usually hear) a nice BLUE spark jumping the gap. If not find out why.<br />If so, repeat the test on all 4 wires. You have now eliminated all of the ignition system except for the plugs themselves.<br /><br />2)Not enough fuel.<br />This is a little more difficult to check, but basically, you need to have a mechanic install a test wheel in place of your prop, run the engine up, and somehow introduce more fuel to the engine<br />to see if it will accelerate past the 2600 rpm wall. I don't wan't to suggest that you mess with the fuel system while running the boat, for obvious safety reasons.<br />What can be done first, is to rebuild the carburetor to factory specs. I don't remember reading if you have done this or not.<br /><br />3) And this is my guess for the cause-<br />Boat is over-propped, not on plane, or not trimmed up once on plane.<br />I seem to remember that the problem supposedly started with a different prop being installed.<br />It all depends on whether or not you trust the person who you bought the boat from, but I have serious doubts about running a 19 pitch prop on that boat, much less a 23. The reason is, I own a 3.0 omc in a 17 foot boat, and there aint no way in hell it would plane out with a 19 pich prop.<br />My drive ratio is 1.7 engine revs to one prop rev.<br />I'm not sure what the Merc. ratio is. If it's numerically lower, say 1.5 to one, your engine would have to work even harder.<br /><br />My boat is a 4 winns 170 Horizon v-hull bowrider.<br />It needs a 15 pitch prop. The drive needs to be all the way down to get on plane. Once on plane,<br />it has to be trimmed up to exceed 30 mph-about 3200 rpm. Trimmed up just enough to get the front of the boat out of the water, it will top out at about 40 mph- about 4500 rpm.<br />It takes full throttle for about 8 seconds to plane.<br />Is your boat on plane at your maximum rpm? and how fast are you going?<br />Let us know. <br />John
 

jimmmy

Seaman
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
51
Re: Desperate! Six weeks and 2 different mechanics?

FINALLY...............<br />Two years later, and it's finally fixed! The problem (as suggested by several ppl) was the wrong outdrive with the wrong gear package had been installed back on the boat by someone????? I had asked the last mechanic to check that two years ago, and they said it was fine!!!!<br />Anyhow, had the proper gears installed and now get 4500 RPM and nearly 40 MPH. <br /><br />Now what am I going to occupy my time with all summer......
 
Top