Descaling flush, motor that stops peeing

MattFL

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This is to share the results of a little experiment. Backstory; my 99' Honda 50 has lots of hours and gets year round use in salt. It has built up enough crumbs of sediment that the pee tube frequently gets clogged and the stream slows to a dribble or stops. The rest of the motor is flowing fine as I've never yet hear the overheat alarm, and it gets run hard often. So after some research I wanted to give a descaling rise a try, and the Rydlyme brand seemed to be a reasonably safe bet. The chemistry that acids readily dissolve salt deposits is proven, but acids also dissolve metals like Aluminum. Acids can be buffered, which means they add something to it to make it less reactive with metals which is what I think they've done with products like Rydlyme, but there's still some risk depending on the alloy, from what I understand.

Long story short; it absolutely removed salt buildup and a ton more of what looks like sand than I was expecting, but the pee tube is still clogging. I think I chickened out and stopped it too soon, I'm debating on doing it again. While it was running you could smell the gas from the reaction and I stopped and checked the thermostat area at around 20 minutes and it was clean down to the metal so that's when I decided to cut it short for fear of the chemical also eating the metal, and maybe I didn't let it go long enough to completely dissolve the crumbs that are clogging the pee tube. But here's the results. I have some before pictures of the water jackets under the intake manifold from last year, but I haven't taken it apart yet for the after pictures of that section. I'll come back and post those next time I have a need to remove the intake manifold (too busy to do it just for pictures).

Procedure: Remove lower unit and thermostat, use an old bilge pump connected to the water pickup. I circulated some plain water as a test and got a few tiny grains of sand out but nothing of note. Then I mixed approximately 50% Rydlyme / 50% water and ran that through. You could smell the gas from the reaction. I mistakenly assumed that everything would be dissolved by the Rydlyme so I didn't think to look at the bottom of the bucket and just dumped it (the chemical is dark and you cannot see through it), but after I dumped the bucket there was a lot of what looked like beach sand left in the bucket. I'm going to guess there was a couple tablespoons of this stuff, so it most definitely loosened up a lot of stuff that plain water didn't remove.

Thermostat area before:

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During, using an old bilge pump connected to the water feed tube and a bigger hose to direct the pee stream back into the bucket.
1624207134497.png



Thermostat area after:
1624204308459.png

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What just happened to be stuck to the bottom of the bucket after I dumped it, a lot more got dumped out with the liquid:

1624211596996.png
 

Sea Rider

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Does the peeing orifice it's part of the middle leg (1) or has a water hose (2) that squirts water side of the lower powerhead that connects to the middle leg's side ?

If the peeing port clogs very easily, triim the motor fully up, if peing through (1) remove the rubber hose and squirt an overdosis of W-40D, CRC carbon remover, white vinegar and let soak for some time. If peing through (2) squirt same products whichever you like and let soak, start the motor and check if motor pees much bette than before.

All motors run in salt water will collect salt layers, crusts on the entire water passages no matter if flushed all day long after returning to terra firme. It's the nature of the beast due to constant ON-OFF, heating, cooling repetitive cycles. Geographical boating locations also account for such, there's more salt contents in the waters located around the equator than the rest of the world due to water evaporates more incresing the salt contents much more.

Check this related article : https://www.practical-sailor.com/boat-maintenance/descaling-solutions-for-boats

Happy Boating

 

MattFL

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Oct 20, 2010
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856
The clog is happening inside the block. On these little Hondas the pee water opening is on the lower bottom of the block with a little hose that runs to the nozzle. When it's clogged, sticking weed whacker string up as far as it will go does not clear the clog, so it's happening somewhere back up in the motor, not in the hose itself. I'm not sure what the anatomy is as far as the little water passages that feed the pee tube. Turning the motor off and letting all the water drain out then starting it again usually clears it. When I get more time I'm going to try removing the lower unit again, removing the thermostat and flushing as much water as possible backwards through the thermostat housing and the pee water tube to see if I can get any debris to come out the water pickup tube. I might also try squirting a syringe or two of descaler backwards through the pee tube and letting that sit 10 or 20 minutes to see if it dissolves the parts. Flushing the entire motor with descaler again would be easy, but I haven't convinced myself yet that it's worth the risk.
 

Sea Rider

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I'm not familiar with Honda's motors but surely all motors brands have water passages located between the lower powerhead and the pan that lessens their diameters due to salt build ups there.

00.JPG

One for sure deals with the peeing port not peeing right or clogging frequently...

Happy Boating
 

MattFL

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If the eBay listing that I borrowed this picture from is correct, then this is the bottom of my block. The bits must be in this water channel. I need to find the pan that goes under here to get a better idea for what the channel shape is. If I were to tilt the motor up, the left side of the picture would be down and the right side would be up. So maybe if I tilt it up then inject the descaler through the pee tube, it will run into the channel and hopefully wet the bits that are in there. Perhaps I should drop the lower unit, inject some descaler through the pee tube and let it soak a while, then inject the rinse water through the pee tube in hopes of back flushing any bits out through the water pickup tube.

1624294549492.png
 

Sea Rider

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You can perform same injecting white vinegar, WD-40, CRC carbon remover and have a long soak with motor tilted fully horizontal. Close the peeing tube with something to hold in place whichever was injected. That Ebay pic looks very clean, will yours look the same, definitely not Lol!!

Happy Boating
 

Sea Rider

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At the upper pan usually lays a labyrinth water passage that can be partially or fully clog with debris, salt formations and let oly a small water quantity to pas to the water channel seen, when that hapens, the peeing indicator will not pee at all or will do so as having prostate issues. That labyrinth is an impossible to reach area while poking whatever you want through the peeing port.

Happy Boating
 

ahicks

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You have it Matt. The pipe coming up from the pump bolts to/supplies water to the other side of this part, and enters the engine/block in the top left part of this picture. This actually illustrates fairly well a point I like to make on occasion, that the water exiting the pee port is actually on sort of a bypass. This water is not circulated through any part of the motor (other than what you see here) prior to exiting.

Engines that are really bad from a corrosion stand point (salties) may have started to corrode where this part meets the gasket (on either side of the gasket), forming an irregularity/pocket too big for the gasket to seal. This picture illustrates perfectly where that water that leaks through an imperfection like that might go - right into the oil pan.

Matt, I know you've heard of Honda's with water in the oil. Corrosion on either side of the gasket that seals this part is the worst case scenario as it's going to require a near total tear down to replace this part - or the engine block itself - which is what's sitting on the other side of this gasket.

Which brings up a point I'd like to make. Acid sitting in this path COULD finish off an area that's hanging on by a thread - and force a total tear down. -Al
 
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ahicks

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Sorry. Above written pre-coffee. The water from the pipe enters this part top RIGHT, not top left as I noted above. Al
 

MattFL

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@ahicks thanks for the tip on that failure spot, you hit the nail on the head for my concern (doing more damage than good). It bothers my OCD that the pee tube clogs up, but logically it's obviously not causing problems as I've made several long high speed runs with it barely dribbling without any problem. I'm leaning towards just trying to flush it backwards with water and see what I can get out of it, then play it from there. The rest of the motor works so well I really don't want to replace it until I have to.
 

ahicks

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Matt, have you tried removing the fitting on the side of the block? That allows for a much larger opening, and higher flow rate. Water will really come blasting out of it if everything else is in good condition. It's not hard to remove using a deep well socket. -Al
 

MattFL

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I'll give that a try. When I stick a very long weed whacker string up the tube as far as it will go when it's clogged, that does not unclog it which made me think the problem was farther back in the motor somewhere, but I will try that next time I'm fiddling with it, maybe the extra water flow without the fitting will bring something out. And/or maybe if I try inserting a string at that fitting then I can get it farther back into the motor and maybe dislodge or break something up.
 

MattFL

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Well, partial success I suppose.. I tried removing that fitting but it wasn't budging and I didn't want to force the issue and break something, so I left it. But it did partially clog up for me while on the muffs, so I stuck a really long weed whacker string down through the fitting while it was running and presto it started spraying like crazy, so now I know approximately how far back up in there it's clogging. I think the next move is to drop the lower unit and shoot water and air backwards through that fitting to see if I can blow whatever it is out backwards.
 

ahicks

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Matt, my experience would indicate it's sand build up (or something that looks like sand), not anything real solid.

I've had some trouble with those fittings too. A deep well socket will generally convince them they should come out of there. I would say I've never broken one, but that's when you will be the first. -Al
 

MattFL

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Just following up on this thread; after some more digging, my new thought is the chunks clogging the pee tube are originating at the internal anode under the exhaust cover plate. The water goes through there on the way into the motor and before the pee tube. When the ocean starts getting too rough to get out later this year, I'll try to remove that cover, replace the anode and clean it up in there and see if that 100% solves it.
 
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