Crusader 305 will not start

[rwerner43]

I am experienced but have a stumper.

Twin 305's in a Carver, inboards

Saltwater got sucked into the port engine when hose clamp broke. I did not know, the boat sat for a month and the heads got rusty with two valves that siezed. Valves freed up easilly, but still would not start.

I ended up replacing the heads with new ones, still will not start. Will not even cough with starter fluid. Slows and speeds up while turning over and adjusting the timing.

Good gas, Starboard engine runs fine.

Getting gas through carb. Even changed to a known working backup carb. (Roch quad)

At top dead center, distributor is pointing to plug #1 (watching valves, seeing intake cycle, tdc before exhaust cycles)

125lbs or more on 4 cylinders, 80 or more on 2 cylinders

Cylinders had minor surface rust, no scoring, I expect compression to come up some once it is running, but it is plenty to run it as is.

Seemingly good spark to each plug. Sharp blue spark at distributor. Plug wires one year old and inspected.

SO I have compression, spark, gas and air. Exhaust is clear.

What have I missed?????????

 

[Aloysius]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

So It's the port (standard rotation) engine? If so, pretty straightforward. Firing order is correct? Are you SURE you're not 360 degrees off on the distributor?

 

[rwerner43]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

It is the port which is counter rotation. I am positive the firing order is correct and the distributor is not 180 degrees off. 100% positive...

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

you SURE you're not 360 degrees off on the distributor?

Dang thats funny.

Now to the point.
I dont think 80 is enough to get the mix compressed enough to make her run. Now on the other hand it should at least cough on starting fluid.

Have you ever heard it run? All I can think of is it has the wrong cam.
I will reread your post and add to this in a minute.

After rereading your post, the cam should be right. So, I got nothin. Sorry I couldn't help. Something will probably hit me about 2am when Im sleeping.
I still think the compression is to low on the 4 cylinders.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

typically on twins the port engine turns to the left, standard rotation.
typically the starboard engine turns to the right, counter rotation.
transmisson output may or may NOT follow engine rotation.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

And you are using what firing order? watching the balancer or circ pump pulley, what direction does it turn?

 

[Aloysius]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

typically on twins the port engine turns to the left, standard rotation.
typically the starboard engine turns to the right, counter rotation.
transmisson output may or may NOT follow engine rotation.

That's correct. I've frankly never seen a counter-rotating inboard on the port side, even with vee drives.

BTW, EVERY 4 stroke engine has 720 degrees in the complete cycle. If the distributor is installed one revolution off, that's 360 degrees CRANKSHAFT. But of course you KNOW what I meant.......

 

[rwerner43]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

I have had the boat for 10 years and do not question the rotation. I have used her here in the Keys 2-3x a week for all of those years and she has never given me a problem.

She ran great two months ago, and her other engine is still running great.

There has to be something we are missing. I appreciate the feedback...

Rich

Captain Rich Werner
Endless Summer Charters
www.endlesssummer.us

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

1 standard or reverse rotation?
2 you removed the heads, also dist, what firing order is used
3 did you correctly set #1 at TDC compression and the rotor is on #1 in the cap, not facing #1 cylinder

 

[rwerner43]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

It is a reverse rotation engine, 1-2-7-5-6-3-4-8

Distributer was not disturbed, simple removed and replaced, and the engine was not turned over during the head change. The distributor was replaced exactly as it was and checked by turning the engine over, watching for cylinder 1 intake valve to cycle, then continuing until the harmonic balancer was at TDC mark and looking to see if the distributor was firing on plug #1, which it is. That is the foolproof way to check timing.

It is definately not a timing issue, although that is what makes sense....

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

you sat the hose broke and flooded the engine, was it from a hi bilge level?
Maybe the starter was replaced with the wrong rotation?
does the motor actually turn counterclockwise viewed from the harmonic balancer.If an aft entry starter is used most inboards use a reverse rotation starter on a standard rotation engine and a standard starter on a reverse rotation.

 

[rwerner43]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

There was no flooding, just some salt spray from a small leak. Only a mist of salt water could have been pulled into the carb. It was so slight it was not noticable when she was running.

It is the same starter.

 

[Aloysius]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

Interesting problem, but frustrating, huh?

Massive intake leak?

Cap and rotor are squeeky clean?

I hate to keep harping on it, but a distributor clocked one revolution off fools alot of experienced mechanics. For poops and giggles, turn the distributor 1/2 a turn and try it. If it doesn't work, I won't ask again.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

Are you using a timing light when adjusting timing? Yes -- it will work while cranking. You are 100% positive on the firing order, compression, spark, distributor and fuel so obviously something is NOT 100%. You said you replaced the heads. Did you adjust the valves properly (3/4 turn from zero lash)?

 

[GLENN M]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

360 out had to think for a couple seconds,crank 360 cam,dis,180 out yup thats right.and i think your right! a mist of water didnt even notice it.and it wreaked havect.you say didnt disturb timng but taking distributor out is disturbing it. and lets face it something is wrong,ran before if something got messed up a little would still try to run.turn dis 180 degrees

 

[rwerner43]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

It would not start before we replaced the heads, it was the same problem.

I know the timing is correct becasue I look for the intake valve to depress, then then timing mark lines up top dead center before the exhaust valve depresses. When the mark is at TDC the distributor should be pointing to plug 1, which it is. It is the only way to be sure 100% of timing.

$100 to whoever figures it out!!!

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

Using a clock , in what direction did you install the plug wires on the cap?
Are the plugs wet with fuel and not water?
If you have compression , fuel , and spark at the proper time it will run.

 

[wallerus]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

You only gave compression for 6 of the cylinders. Do a wet compression test and post the cylinder numbers and their compression. I'm thinking timing chain.

 

[rwerner43]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

I can put to rest what I thought at first and everyone else is thinking.

Timing.

When the intake valve depresses on cylinder 1, the next time the timing mark comes is the exact moment the plug 1 fires. Then the exhast valve depresses. Perfect timing.

Timing is perfect, and I have moved it before TDC and after while turing over. It is not the timing. It is not the timing chain.

Plug wires were replaced 1 year ago and are in the exact same position as when the boat was running. In addition, they are varied lengths making replacement on the plugs easy, however I still checked the,

Rotor is clean, hot spark out of distributor, good spark on every plug.

Compression today was

125
128
122
120
110
116
91
96

More than enough, and please keep in mind a few months ago this engine was running strong, and has been for 10 years. Never had any problems with it.

To recap, Starboard engine is running great off of the same bateries and gas.

I have been working on this every week for 2 months now. Doesn't cough dry, doesn't cough wet. No choke, choke, no gas, full throttle, not even a cough even on starter fluid.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Crusader 305 will not start

I have been working on this every week for 2 months now. Doesn't cough dry, doesn't cough wet. No choke, choke, no gas, full throttle, not even a cough even on starter fluid.

Ayuh,... If everything is as you say it is, it'll Start....
Have you tried dumping abit of gas down the carb throat, Then cranking it,..??

Although the compression is that of a motor needing Rebuilding, it still should Start....