Crankcase breather squirting oil

skipjack27

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
79
I'd be interested to know if anyone has any bright ideas on how to deal with this problem. I have a 200 HP Volvo AQAD41A driving a Duoprop 290 leg. The boat is a 27' fibreglass flybridge launch, weighing around 3 tons. The engine is 23 years old and has around 1400 hours on the clock. As far as I know, it has never been rebuilt.

There are no problems running at modest revs (e.g., 2700rpm or so), but when the engine is pushed up to max revs (about 3500+) the crankcase breather starts venting oil in significant amounts. By significant, I mean that there is a continuous trickle into the bilge and the engine probably loses something like a couple of litres an hour - possibly more.

The local Volvo service mechanics suggested that the most likely cause was gas escaping from the cylinders under load and pressurising the crankcase to the extent that large amounts of oil were being blown out of the breather. They tested compression and checked the cylinders with a borescope. Compression is down - as much as 100psi on one cylinder - and there is evidence of glazing and vertical scoring. This appears to confirm the diagnosis.

The obvious solution - a rebuild - was quoted at around US$23k. I'm most reluctant to pay this, because the engine otherwise runs beautifully: starts instantly in the coldest of weather, doesn't smoke (once going), idles smoothly, accelerates vigorously, and uses practically no oil (other than in the problem full-load condition, of course). But for the breather problem, I would never have guessed that the engine was in anything other than the prime of life.

The alternative solution suggested by the mechanics was to install a housing adapter that would collect the oil and direct it into a container, allowing it to be returned periodically to the engine rather than collect in the bilge. But, this is a somewhat awkward and unsatisfactory arrangement (even dangerous for the engine if I happen to misjudge the need for decanting collected oil back into the engine), and definitely not a good look for the boat when I come to sell it.

I'd be extremely grateful for any comments/ideas from members of this forum.

Jeff
 

GLENN M

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
204
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

thats a fair diagnostic evaluation,major blowbye rings are shot,your only options dont run at wot,or replace oil as fast as it dissapears or rebuild.if your gonna sell try find a used engine.iam not sure on volvos but 23000 for a rebuild sounds awfully high.how much is a brand new short block?long block? how about second estimate from one of the major rebuilders?
 

a70eliminator

Captain
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
3,746
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

Maybe there need to be some screen in the crankcase vent tube to trap the aerated oil from escaping, Not sure on boat engines but the old road draft tubes had as some coarse steel wool like looking stuff packed in the tube adapter off the manifold, it seems like that would stop some of your oil loss, or make an extension with a 45 degree elbow and up so the oil can run back down the tube.
 

Aloysius

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
484
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

Is that a diesel? Volvo is REAL proud of their diesel parts.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
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Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,986
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

The obvious solution - a rebuild - was quoted at around US$23k.

Ayuh,... Obviously, you need an engine Rebuild, but $23,000.00 is Ridiculous....

Where are you anyways,..??
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

Not sure how much higher parts are there in Australia compared to here in the US, but as I understand it, they are quite a big higher.
The 41's have wet sleeved cylinders, and would assume your mechanic is planning on replacing all 6 cylinder sleeve and piston assemblies. Here in the US, the liner kit with cylinder liner, piston, rings, rod and orings is around $600 each, and you have 6 of those. But how that compares to your area, I can't say.
I used to rebuild one or two of those engines a year over the winter months and they would sell for 12 to 16K (depending on what was needed in rebuild) in the spring.

One thing I always found on engines with scored cylinder walls, was bad fuel injectors. Instead of atomizing the fuel, they would just squirt a stream of fuel into the cylinder and wash the oil off the cylinder walls which caused the scoring.

I always recommended to my customers that the injectors be removed and pop tested every couple of years, and like any diesel, change the fuel filters at least yearly. Low houred engines were worse than those used on a daily basis throughout the year.
 

skipjack27

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
79
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

I deeply appreciate the replies to my query. There is some seriously thought-provoking stuff in practically every one. It's terrific having forums (fora, for the pedantic) like this that give you so many experienced alternative views on a problem - sure helps to beat the sadly one-dimensional view I get from my mechanics.

I live in Perth, Western Australia and - yes - prices for parts tend to be higher in Australia. Not sure why. Smaller market, I guess. I think the smart thing to do would be to buy parts from the US. The Aussie dollar was worth as little as 57 US cents a few years ago, but is now almost at parity with the US$.

And the firm that I use for service and repairs is the local Volvo agent and is quite notorious for charging ridiculous prices. Australia didn't even have a recession during the GFC and is now back to booming along with record employment, etc. And Western Australia is experiencing a terrific mining boom and the rivers of gold are flowing in (to everyone except yours truly). So, over the last decade there has been an explosion of multimillionaires buying multimillion dollar boats. Boating is becoming so congested in the river and inter-island ocean that I rather think boats here need to be fitted with turn indicators and "brake" lights, and traffic lights need to be installed at strategic locations on the water!

So, my mechanics are not interested in small fry like me. They've got multimillion dollar boats to look after, and I'm just a nuisance. If I'm not happy with their inflated quotes, they don't care. All this is by way of saying that I've seriously taken on board the comments about the rebuild cost, and will be looking around for a rather more reasonable mechanic.

The suggestions for palliative approaches to the problem are interesting, though. I'd really like to have some time to see whether I want to keep this boat before getting into rebuilds, etc. So, I liked the idea of a 45 degree elbow that allows oil to run back into the crankcase. The problem is pretty simple, mechanically speaking: oil is vented from the breather at high loads. Why is it so difficult to devise a way to automatically return it to the crankcase? When I locate a new mechanic, I'm going to kick this idea around with him.

Jeff
 

sasto

Captain
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
3,918
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

The idea has been around for a long time...one comes to mind is the Walker Airsep. Some mechanics don't like it...but owners do.

If she were mine I would change the oil and refill to the proper level. I have seen blowby caused by as little as a half of a quart of oil to much. The oil will foam in the pan from the crankshaft causing your problem. With the shallow oil pan you have it is exagerated when the bow is lifted and the oil in the pan is forced aft.

Good Luck!
 

scoflaw

Ensign
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
962
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

a thick straight weight oil will help you out, as well as new oil verses old, there are plenty of products out there to thicken up the oil as well to reduce blowby.
 

spdracr39

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
1,238
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

Using a synthetic oil could help also.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

Using a synthetic oil could help also.
a thick straight weight oil will help you out, as well as new oil verses old, there are plenty of products out there to thicken up the oil as well to reduce blowby.
Just proof that ANY thread can be turned into an "Oil Thread" with just a few simple words!;)

Sorry guys, no amount of "mechanic in a can" will fix a worn out engine.

At the least it'll need liners/pistons/rings etc.....

Excessive blowby also means lost power and increased fuel consumption.


Sorry about that,


Rick
 

littlebookworm

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
574
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

You could check with local auto engine rebuilders for prices. Marine engines aren't really that different from car engines. Then get a price from the local marine shop for pulling the engine and installing it when it's been rebuilt. That might save a few thousand. Frankly, at those prices, if it were my boat, I'd get a manual and learn how to pull it myself. The connect/disconnect isn't complicated. Good luck. Hy
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

Marine engines aren't really that different from car engines.

Car engines are a lot different than his Volvo Penta 41 series DIESEL engine.
 

scoflaw

Ensign
Joined
Jun 2, 2010
Messages
962
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

OP states he wants to "band aid" the situation until he decides whether he even likes the boat or not.
 

adeneo

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
107
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

Car engines are a lot different than his Volvo Penta 41 series DIESEL engine.

They sure are. I'd be well impressed with anyone who was able to find a similar engine in a car, or use car parts for that engine :eek:
 

sethjon

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
692
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

I'd be interested to know if anyone has any bright ideas on how to deal with this problem. I have a 200 HP Volvo AQAD41A driving a Duoprop 290 leg. The boat is a 27' fibreglass flybridge launch, weighing around 3 tons. The engine is 23 years old and has around 1400 hours on the clock. As far as I know, it has never been rebuilt.

There are no problems running at modest revs (e.g., 2700rpm or so), but when the engine is pushed up to max revs (about 3500+) the crankcase breather starts venting oil in significant amounts. By significant, I mean that there is a continuous trickle into the bilge and the engine probably loses something like a couple of litres an hour - possibly more.

The local Volvo service mechanics suggested that the most likely cause was gas escaping from the cylinders under load and pressurising the crankcase to the extent that large amounts of oil were being blown out of the breather. They tested compression and checked the cylinders with a borescope. Compression is down - as much as 100psi on one cylinder - and there is evidence of glazing and vertical scoring. This appears to confirm the diagnosis.

The obvious solution - a rebuild - was quoted at around US$23k. I'm most reluctant to pay this, because the engine otherwise runs beautifully: starts instantly in the coldest of weather, doesn't smoke (once going), idles smoothly, accelerates vigorously, and uses practically no oil (other than in the problem full-load condition, of course). But for the breather problem, I would never have guessed that the engine was in anything other than the prime of life.

The alternative solution suggested by the mechanics was to install a housing adapter that would collect the oil and direct it into a container, allowing it to be returned periodically to the engine rather than collect in the bilge. But, this is a somewhat awkward and unsatisfactory arrangement (even dangerous for the engine if I happen to misjudge the need for decanting collected oil back into the engine), and definitely not a good look for the boat when I come to sell it.

I'd be extremely grateful for any comments/ideas from members of this forum.

Jeff


First, $23K sounds very high. Perhaps your mechanic is very high. Secondly, using that much oil is definitely telling you to rebuild. You may use more oil than you think at the lower RPM one day and fry the engine in which case it will cost you a bundle. Don't be foolish, rebuild over the winter.
 

skipjack27

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
79
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

As Scoflaw observed, I'm not yet sure that this boat is worth investing serious money in and so am looking for a bandaid solution. Thus, the comments about oil levels, types, etc, are very welcome, and will be explored. Keep in mind that the oil emission doesn't even appear until around 3000rpm, and doesn't become problematic until well above that (3400/3500rpm - wot).

The mechanics who have serviced and repaired this engine since I bought the boat reckon that it can go on "almost forever" before requiring a rebuild. So the engine can't be THAT tired. As I noted, it doesn't "use" any detectable amount of oil at all (except when squirting it out at wot). I had to run at moderate revs for almost a year because of an unrelated overheating problem eventually traced to leaking seals in the leg water intake. During that time, I don't recall ever having to top the oil up (although it is possible that I misremember and may have topped it up once). Furthermore, as I also noted before, I can't fault the engine for starting instantly in bitter cold (as cold as we get in Perth, anyway), idling and running smoothly, and apparently providing plenty of power.

There is obviously no question that the engine is somewhat worn (the 100psi drop in one cylinder...), but it currently shows no outward sign of that wear - other than this breather problem. So, it's in that context - no problems other than the breather emissions, not wanting to rebuild an engine in a boat that I may not want to keep beyond the current season - that I'm particularly grateful for any "bandaid" suggestions.

Jeff
 

GLENN M

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
204
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

the 100 psi drop the blowbye two litres an hour,it dont get much worse before total meltdown.you could extend your dipstick tube 2 feet or run it into a valve cover,but be prepared for failure.its screaming for help sell it now or fix it.there is no easy fix
 

daydreamer1252

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
212
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

Being a sleeved diesel you could do only one hole....not the solution I would prefer for me but...on the cheap....have seen many done on OTR road trucks on "company" trucks......have seen the same engine get this done on three holes..one at a time.....still scratching my head over that.....guess I would fail as a "bean counter"....However it may get you by until you make a final decision.....
 

Fishermark

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
5,617
Re: Crankcase breather squirting oil

"Hey Doc, My arm hurts when I lift it above my head."

Solution from the wise Doc? "Don't lift your arm above your head."



Keep in mind that the oil emission doesn't even appear until around 3000rpm, and doesn't become problematic until well above that (3400/3500rpm - wot).

Solution? Don't go above 3,000. Problem solved! ;)
 
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