crack repair?

[Taxus812]

I purchased our first boat the first week of August from a reputable local dealer (consignment). its a a 2002 Four winns 180 horizon with a Johnson 150 bombardier outboard.

Last night I was wiping the motor down and found what looks like three fine cracks at the base of the top left cylinder where it joins\transitions to what i'll call the block (all one piece of course) . It doesn't appear to be leaking but it is of great concern to me.





The boat had a survey but this was not discovered. In the short time I had it, it never ran over 175 deg and never out of the water. I am bringing it to the dealer I purchased it from Monday to take a look at it.

if this is found to be a crack and not a mold defect, can cracks be repaired or will they have to replace the block\head\water jacket ? I want to get an idea at what im looking at for repairs. Im a bit upset and my kids are disappointed since it is likely going to shut us down for the rest of the summer. (they start school Tuesday) . I guess im getting a crash course in boat ownership.

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: crack repair?

I cant quite see from those photos.
If its just the head that should be replaceable pretty quickly.
Did you talk to whoever did the survey?
I hear of things getting missed by surveyors a lot, seems a lot get away with it

 

[Taxus812]

Re: crack repair?

It is at the block all the way at the base of the cylinder. on the first picture you can see where the engine is clean right behind the wire harnesses that is where it crack is (right along the seam if you will). I wiped it down so I can get a good look at it. It was hard to get a camera in there.

in the second picture, there are three cracks, one c shaped on the left , on that looks like an arc in the center, and one straight on the right.

I can see the cracks are deep but it doesn't seem to leak.

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: crack repair?

does the gasket look new?
it might of had an overheat

 

[F_R]

Re: crack repair?

Doesn't look good. In fact it looks like $$$$$ sprouting out.

 

[Taxus812]

Re: crack repair?

unfortunately in this case, everything on the motor looks new. Its has very little time on it and was garaged most of its life.

What about aluminum brazing? I am hoping this started its life as a casting defect that sorta cracked. I am not sure the crack goes all the way through.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: crack repair?

are you sure this is not just the paint cracking ?
I saw something similar on a 150 optimax and was sure the block had a crack.when I got at it and gave a good clean with bit of sandpaper it turned out to be just paint cracks.

with outboards sometimes the paint cracking can look pretty serious and often scares the crap out of you.
try to scrape paint away from the area and then have a good look with a magnifying glass.

the 2nd pic looks just like the one I saw on the optimax. just paint crack.

if its not paint then this is terminal trouble and big bucks to have it done as probably need new block !!!!

I do hope for you that its just paint flaking and cracking.


phill

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: crack repair?

Those blocks are lost cast as the block mold is styrofoam glued together in sections. The seam you see is what is called a glue line. A few of these blocks have defects and as long as its external and water if can be cleaned/epoxied over with a industrial epoxy like Devcon. It when this starts to leak internally into cylinder is when it gets expensive as it will cause piston failure. I have also see these leak the fuel mixture from the seam and these are not fixable.

 

[Taxus812]

Re: crack repair?

I am starting to accept my fate. Guess even a good buying strategy fails sometimes. (Reputable dealer, mechanical review, test run, not focusing on just a bargan) . Just sucks it is my first boat an second week of ownership

If it is a crack that can't be repaired I'm just going to have to run it until it fails (nothing more lost at that point) since I can't put $5k into rebuilding it. Then it becomes a $9k lawn ornament until I can.

Fortunately the mechanic I am taking it to does the Johnson (Evenrude) factory repairs in the area.

Btw Looking close, it is deeper than the paint but doesn't look to go in more than 1mm. I don't know how thick the material is at that point but hopefully it doesn't go all the way through.

 

[Taxus812]

Re: crack repair?

I was able to use a thin strip of paper and slip it in the crack to get a rough idea of how deep they are.

The first bottoms out at 2mm the second main one is 3mm. I understand they could be deeper but that is what I could measure. That says it is more than paint. Still doesn't rule out a foundry flaw since the inside edges of the crack look painted and doesn't look like it was repainted

Still it doesn't leak so perhaps that is a good sign.

Any way as I said its going to a Johnson mechanic next week. I'm making myself literally sick thinking about having possibly lost so much money.

I didn't get any answers I had hoped for( such as a crack in a power head is salvageable ). Now I have to wait for the news from them.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: crack repair?

worse case scenario is another block.
so not going to be anywhere near $5000.
buy a used block and just put all your stuff on it and in it.
while its apart you put new rings and bearings, new seals etc and you have a recon engine that will last for a lot of years.
price will be well under $1000 due to not having broken or worn out stuff to deal with.
good pistons and rods and crank and electrics and cylinder heads etc etc.

I know its not what you have wanted to happen ,but it realy could be a lot more tragic than it is .


phill

 

[Anchor Marine Repair LLC]

Re: crack repair?

I am starting to accept my fate. Guess even a good buying strategy fails sometimes. (Reputable dealer, mechanical review, test run, not focusing on just a bargan) . Just sucks it is my first boat an second week of ownership

If it is a crack that can't be repaired I'm just going to have to run it until it fails (nothing more lost at that point) since I can't put $5k into rebuilding it. Then it becomes a $9k lawn ornament until I can.

Fortunately the mechanic I am taking it to does the Johnson (Evenrude) factory repairs in the area.

Btw Looking close, it is deeper than the paint but doesn't look to go in more than 1mm. I don't know how thick the material is at that point but hopefully it doesn't go all the way through.

As mentioned by a few people, that type of crack is pretty standard on that era of OMC. Some of those lost foam blocks have those seams from the casting. Others it's way too much paint, then it just cracks naturally (since it's too thick).

If it were an issue, you'd see some sort of residue stained there.

Plus that area has about 3/4" of aluminum there. That would be an amazing crack into 3/4" aluminum yet causing no running issues, leakage, noise.

Relax and enjoy your boat.

 

[Taxus812]

Re: crack repair?

I appreciate the good feedback. it really helps.

I dropped it off at the dealer\mechanic to add a keel guard and they will will taker a look at the "crack" while it is there.

The owner took a quick look and seconded your opinions with saying he has never seen a crack in that location in 20+ years of working on motors. He also said it is more likely that there is a casting defect there that the paint bridged and then cracked (the paint). Further stating if it was a true crack it WOULD leak.

They totally seem to agree with you

They will take a close look this week while it is in the shop for me anyway.

 

[Taxus812]

Re: crack repair?

I got the boat back from the shop and they said "They are overlays that happen when the block was cast". They ran the motor and verified there is no leaking. I'm going to close it up and try to forget about it